DISQUS

meman · 2 years ago

so how many points do you need to get .... to get something like a coffee pot for instance?........

stevehuff · 2 years ago

You can totally ignore the points, if you like. I don't think they're too important.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Ok -- here you go -- sorry for the delay -- I'd somehow set this particular entry to "no comments, hide existing."

I'm tired.

sparrow · 2 years ago

Hi, just testing. Sorry.

sparrow · 2 years ago

Hi guys. I need to get something off my chest. Sorry for the abruptness, but I can't hang around much longer tonight. I hope you will all consider what I write below:

1. Neither Rudy, Raf, or Amanda committed murder that night. None were involved in violence against Meredith.

2. Most of what Rudy says is the truth. He leaves out some details of what happened that night, and also the name of the killer, which he knows. Fran referenced some articles earlier that say that in a taped conversation RG admitted to his father that he knew the name of the killer but was too afraid to reveal it.

3. The real killer is known to all of them, at least by sight and reputation. He is someone to really fear.

4. This case would be much simpler for the police if it were just a case of finding out which of these kids killed MK. But the truth is much more dangerous and difficult.

Okay, If we believe Rudy, everything starts to make more sense. It causes us to see AK, RS, and even RG the way people who know them see them, as young people incapable of such violence. When we thought they could have been killers, especially Amanda, we had to stretch our imagination, but we did so because we thought the evidence pointed to them. With Rudy's story, we don't have to stretch anymore. Amanda is just an unwise, promiscuous girl. RS is just a fool for a girl, and RG is so, so unlucky always. The person who stabbed MK in the neck is a hardened criminal. Now it does all make sense.

Patrick mentioned that he was afraid of firing Amanda, afraid of repercussions of some sort. When I read that I thought he just meant she wouldn't bring her friends there anymore. It might be more than that. In describing how difficult it was to have her as an employee, he said that he, as her boss, was even told by one of the fellows with whom she was flirting to to leave her alone. I think the implication was that he had to back down.

The police should be looking for that person, or men like him, men with whom Amanda associated who were real criminals, men who everyone is a little afraid of. Not like Rudy, who I would guess no one is afraid of.

Please consider these things. Ciao.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Interesting suggestion, Sparrow. If the unknown person is so dangerous, why did Rudy go dancing after he fled the scene of the crime? Also, to believe him one would have to believe his tale of Meredith's affection towards him.

sparrow · 2 years ago

Couldn't stay away. Pinecone... Quickly... the unknown person didn't kill RG. He didn't have to. He's pretty sure RG will keep his mouth shut. The unknown person may be connected, that's why he's so daring. He can get away with things. Sorry, but this is Italy. Rudy went dancing because he just lived through a nightmare. It must have seemed so unreal, yet he couldn't deny it. He went dancing to revisit the life he loved, the innocent one, dancing and laughing with pretty girls, one last time, before he ran away.

I have no problem believing Meredith liked him. That joke he told her about sucking his blood because she lost her cup was so cute and clever. If I were a girl, dressed like a vampire at a party, and a guy said that to me, and if he presented himself as cutely as the joke is, I would have laughed out loud. I get the picture Rudy is very likable. Why did that rich man take pity on him? I've seen quotes from friends that say he's very nice. And his complaint about being portrayed as a drug dealer might be valid. That may be overblown. He's a student. Maybe he has sold some drugs on a small scale, maybe he's been found with some, but he may not be a hardcore criminal. Maybe he's more like Amanda. You think she's never sold any on a casual basis? Provided some?

Anyway I have no problem with the idea that they flirted at the party. He said they kissed. It might have been a real kiss, it might have been a peck on the cheek. In Italy everyone kisses on the cheek. But if she didn't have special feelings for him, maybe he exaggerated it because he liked her. Guys do that all the time.

Maybe she was just being nice to him and he imagined it more. Maybe he said he wanted to come over to her house and she said "Okay," being all vague and nice, while he was being specific. These kind of things happen all the time, you know that.

Or maybe she really liked him and did arrange to meet him, but she wasn't ready to tell her friends. That happens too.

The story of affection between them may not be true, but I have no problem believing it (a week ago I would have though). But I think that when Rudy talks now of HIS affection it's very real. He watched her die. He's bonded to her forever. Her tragedy... I'm sure many people writing on this blog cry for Meredith sometimes. I'm sure he cries every night for her. Take a look at his recent photos.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Interesting Sparrow. But it has been reported that he was stabbed in a fight over drugs in a square in Perugia -- not a casual drug dealer sort of thing. It has also been reported that he has been arrested for b&e on at least two (and maybe three) occassions in the last 6 months. Those would be the times he was got.

The psychology of the b&e criminal is very scary. No psychological or physical boundry applies to them.

sparrow · 2 years ago

What is b&e?

frangi · 2 years ago

break and enter

kb · 2 years ago

Rudy may have gone dancing to prove to the 'really bad guy' how nonchalant he was about it (before he skedaddled out of town in fear). He also may be lying about why he went there initially. Perhaps he did go to meet Amanda, or... who knows? But showing some human decency afterwards (if true) doesn't meanwe must believe his story of a consensual relationship.

This scenario, however, does not take into account Rudy's DNA in/on Meredith.

kb

sparrow · 2 years ago

I have a problem with this DNA evidence. Mostly this is because they say there was no blood on her legs. There's no way this could have happened with her wounds, unless she was clothed when she was killed. That's why I believe Rudy when he says he didn't rape her and she was still dressed in her jeans when he left.

So I do still believe there was a "clean up" and or altering of the crime scene after Rudy left. And maybe this is where AK and RS come into the picture. They are involved somehow. They are also afraid. Remember, AK is probably the reason this dangerous character is in the house (unless he is there because of the residents of the apt. below).

When RS complains about "helping" people, I think he's talking about AK. She came to him with this problem. She's involves somehow in this scene that went out of hand and turned to murder. Maybe this guy is so dangerous and protected that they too don't want to tell the police. So, RS helps her cover up things, so she doesn't have to tell police anything about this other guy. If it were simply a mystery rape, perpetrated by someone else, she's free and clear. Now RS says he wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for AK, and he says it's better to save yourself and not help others sometimes.

Back to the DNA. I think I've read on this blog that in this preliminary stage, evidence like DNA evidence can merely be mentioned, but needn't be proven to pass the rigorous standards they have in a final trial. This DNA evidence may prove not to be real, or conclusive. Or it may be a result of contamination in the lab (it happens), or it may have been planted. What form did this DNA come from? Was it skin, semen, shit? We don't know.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

What clean up?

Loz · 2 years ago

AK showered in the bloodied bathroom - so, AKs clean up.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"I have a problem with this DNA evidence. Mostly this is because they say there was no blood on her legs. There's no way this could have happened with her wounds, unless she was clothed when she was killed. That's why I believe Rudy when he says he didn't rape her and she was still dressed in her jeans when he left."

Check out the second paragraph below.

http://www.agi.it/italy/news/200712141908-cro-r...

"those judging the review...have heard - in addition to the defence - the reconstruction of the grounds for the charge and the comments by the magistrate on the "relationship/non-relationship" between Rudy and Meredith. The two allegedly did not have any date the evening before 1 November simply because on that date they had not even met."

"The bloodied fingerprint on the pillow found next to Meredith, the DNA traces on the vaginal swab carried out as part of the autopsy and epithelial ones found in the bathroom are the mark left by Rudy Hermann Guede in the house..."

sparrow · 2 years ago

Pinecone, it's true we must keep in mind all that the judges say, but we know already that some of the things they've said have proven already not to be true, and they have adjusted for that. Patrick is a case in point. And some things they maintain, I am sure you don't agree with, like the assessment of Amanda as one who is dangerous and can incite others to commit violence, or whatever she said.

I don't know how they concluded that R and M never met. They might conclude differently later.

The bloody thumbprint, yeah it's his. He had blood all over his hands because he tried to help her, he said. The bathroom, he was there. The vaginal swab? I explained my problem with that. She was dressed when she was killed.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"The vaginal swab? I explained my problem with that. She was dressed when she was killed. "

But she was not dressed when she was found. And Rudy's DNA was found on vaginal swabs.

sparrow · 2 years ago

Yes. I don't believe he assaulted her after she was killed. You may, but I don't. So the DNA on the vaginal swab is one of those pieces of evidence I will doubt.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"The person who stabbed MK in the neck is a hardened criminal."

I think he is. I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's killed other women. He also left his DNA in the victim and all around the crime scene. Why didn't Rudy's "real dangerous man" have a dangerous weapon? Rudy says he was armed with a very thin instrument that had only a narrow, sharp tip. The description matches the wounds on the victim and the wound on Rudy's palm. The knife from RS's kitchen was too wide to have been the murder weapon.

sparrow · 2 years ago

"Why didn't Rudy's "real dangerous man" have a dangerous weapon? Rudy says he was armed with a very thin instrument that had only a narrow, sharp tip."

That sounds like real dangerous weapon to me. Rudy said it made a very deep cut, and it was very sharp.

amy · 2 years ago

hi Steve, just wanted to ask how to download a video from youtube.
I'm asking you cause I've seen you made it with all videos of this case.
Thanks

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Amy, go here:

http://www.techcrunch.com/get-youtube-movie/

The file will download as a .flv extension. You will then need to convert it to .avi or .mpg in order to re-upload it to your own YouTube acct. To handle .flv files and to do conversions. you can try:

http://tinyurl.com/9xyy6

Total Video Converter -- that's what I've used, and it's done the job just fine. To break it down:

1. Download YouTube vid you want via techcrunch tool
2. Download the Total Video Converter -- or any similar program
3. If you want to use the .flv file, the Total Video Converter will play it
4. If you want to re-upload to your own YouTube, you will have to convert the video to .avi or .mpeg and upload it.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

Squiggle · 2 years ago

OK cw, here are the instructions

HOW TO LINK EXPLICITLY TO ANOTHER POST


1. Hover over the user icon beside the post you wish to link to. You will get a little menu that includes the item "Permalink".
2. Right-click on the Permalink item to bring up a menu. This will let you select "Copy Link Location" (or similar, depending on which browser you use).
3. Paste the link into the post you are creating.
4. Important: Edit out the part of the link between the final "/" and the "#". This will look something like "?s=oldest&v=threaded". If you don't do this, the link will cause the page to be regenerated with your sort and view preferences, not the other users'.

(Reposted as new to allow threaded users to see it easily, and to allow for points :) )

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Another gotcha (and partial solution). Copying the whole link URL is a problem, since some users are viewing at http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/2007/12/open-thr... and others at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t.... Using the whole URL from the Permalink will cause other users who click on it to be directed to the version of the page you are using.

PARTIAL SOLUTION Use relative URLs. This means actually writing some HTML. Here I have created a link to the parent of this post. The HTML code I embedded to do this was:

<a href="#comment-36779">link to the parent of this post</a>

(but still this fails when the posts are not on the same page in the paginated version. Still trying and testing...)

Squiggle · 2 years ago

I've come to the conclusion that the Parent and Permalink links are fundamentally broken in the embedded, paginated version. They don't work even "as intended" if the post they link to is not on the same page. You can demonstrate this by finding a post where the parent is not on the same page. Hovering and selecting "Parent" simply doesn't work - and the reason why is clear to anyone with an elementary understanding of HTML. Another reason not to use the paginated version folks. Stick with http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

OK Squiggle: I just upped your points to 5 (highest I've seen to date) after reading this latest thread. Congrats! *laughs* that my medals were all stolen by a b & e 'er.

But now I am a bit confused again. I am using the //true.crimewebblog.disqus etc. version but does that still cause the instructions you previously listed to give a follow up reader a "false page" link or "other page" link. Relative links I understand but that is going to be a manual HTML entry after looking up the URL. Just more confusion for a bunch of amateur sleuths as myself.

Xin is right! This is beta software and not the best. Seems as though we could possibly be the best beta team they might encounter. Would hope Steve or someone might update them to our efforts. *lol*

Squiggle · 2 years ago

cw: "I am using the //true.crimewebblog.disqus etc. version but does that still cause the instructions you previously listed to give a follow up reader a "false page" link or "other page" link?"

No, they're currently the best we can do. What it will do is cause users of the embedded, paginated, version to be redirected here when they click on one of your links. On balance, not a bad thing.

Also, there will be no broken links if they're directed here, whereas there sometimes will be with relative URLs when accessed via the paginated version.

RobertM · 2 years ago

testing

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

RobertM · 2 years ago

Only GEEKS would never think of end users & HIDE all this stuff behind an icon. My Dad used dial-up for inventory in 1969, and I've been coding since Os & 1s. But to offer this functionality as an Easter Egg Hunt is stupid, stupid, stupid. EDN rant. Go To <Top of Thread>.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Hey! Only DUMB geeks would do this. I've been coding since I entered machine code in hex 25 years ago. I supervise student software engineering projects every year. This sort of insane non-visibility (cf. Donald Norman, 'The Design of Everyday Things' (http://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Do...)) is the kind of thing I would come down on like a tonne of bricks.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

You all can use html. You can also vote comments up or down, but I hope you'll be fair there. It will help you ignore trolls, I'll tell you that much. I'm still farting around with the look, but I really like it so far.

meman · 2 years ago

cheer up coyotewaits.................don't feel bad................I only have 3 points

seattleite · 2 years ago

Four meman...I like your posts.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

hey meman, i just gave you one, so the total climb to five, hhhmm 3 +1 = 5. Sort like the equation of the evidence in this case so far.

meman · 2 years ago

lol thanks .............................point for you to........Have a great day

Loz · 2 years ago

OK pinecone, seattleite, et al...

I want to ask, please reply :):-

* Do you think AK was there that night at the time of the murder?

* What was she doing during the murder (your guess?)?

* What did she do that night/morning after the murder(again your guess)?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

* Do you think AK was there that night at the time of the murder?

* What was she doing during the murder (your guess?)?

* What did she do that night/morning after the murder(again your guess)?

I don't know, I used to think she was, but doubt it now. If she was there, the assault was in progress when Amanda entered the house.

She left when she heard the screams and wandered back to RS's house.

The next morning she did exactly what she said she did.

Loz · 2 years ago

pinecone, thanks for answering. so either way you're not certain if she was there or not.

The crime couldn't have been already in progress as she entered because CCTV & witness statements re: MKs arrival puts her there at 8:40-ish before MK.

Unless you mean, she arrived, went out for 9 at the basketball court, ALL while stoned off her face, came back, the crime was in progress then.

OR came back, smoked dope or whatever she 'did'. THEN the crime happened.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"The crime couldn't have been already in progress as she entered because CCTV & witness statements re: MKs arrival puts her there at 8:40-ish before MK."

That's all speculation.

Loz · 2 years ago

Granted.
But still, I have noted both you and seattleite do not say AK was definitely not there during the crime.
thanks :)

Loz · 2 years ago

Pinecone,
it is looking more and more likely that RHG is very violent, and guilty, I agree. IMHO AK is more involved in this than just being a passive innocent by-stander though. I don't know what to make if the bra thing, and if that means as some have suggested half/full necrophilia, or if he was part of some of the staging?
I don't know why he first denied she was there, I think she help set up the situation, and the prospect as RHG said was appealing to him. I don't know if he stabbed her though, as I can't see why he's use a piece of glass, it's illogical. He obviously wasn't there to ransack the property, at least 1 knife if not two were involved, so that to me screams premed, even if it was just planned an hour earlier, it's premed IMHO. They had knives, they were 'ready to go'.
Erm, as I said I am squemish but my mum has sky-plussed(point of contention) loads of csis that I am clearing off on to DVD today. Anyway, in this one episode there was no blood splatter initially from a victim because the weapon was left in their throat for a short time.

Loz · 2 years ago

Here's how RHG could have been responsible for the whole thing on his own or with 'homies' & how the mushroom might go against this theory (discarding the 2 bloodied footprints, evidence of a clean up, cctv placing AK there, witness statements about other people, the 2am arguing, AK not using her key to open MKs door, the knife with AK&MKs dna etc).

* MK lets herself into her house (she is not ambushed outside by RHG cos she has mushrooms)
further, I find it strange that if she lt rhg in for a rondevous she'd eat cheese & mushrooms with him, unless she did so before he came - unlikely cos of digestion time of mushrooms & time of death.
* RHG has broken in before (but MK hasn't noticed and how did RHG move to other rooms to ransack without a key) or after (and MK would have had to lead him to her room for the money - toilet soiling goes against this too cos it's more likely imho he pottied before the ambush).
* MK eats mushroom meal on her own (why, if they didn't, did the ILE not find the punnet in the house fridge or in the litter bags, why only in RS fridge).
* She goes to her room & is ambushed on the way by RHG.
or
* she answers the doorbell

I wonder why he went to the house, how he knew or thought it was empty. maybe he came looking for AK. he'd have to have been carrying a knife. or else MK gashed his hand with her dinner or cooking knife, and he later used this.

Loz · 2 years ago

and if AK & RS are innocent, they really are acting strangely.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Loz said 37 minutes ago (or more, I haven't refreshed): thanks for that, so RHG/AK could have got a lift off Bulagaio from RS who went to the car park?

Here's RS's Audi, parked out front of the police station on Nov. 5. or 6. when he got arrested. I guess Dad had a spare set of keys, otherwise it's still parked there.
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?4348...

Good nite!

Kermit · 2 years ago

Hi everyone. I don't want to foist anything on anyone, but since AK's declarations today haven't cleared up much, I've done another PowerPoint, of the geography and relation between the girls', RS's and RHG's houses.

My own bias (all three are involved in someway in different aspects of Nov. 1 p.m.) shows through. Even those who support other scenarios may get something out of the PPT.

Download it at:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5kwcoj9jm0j
(I hope that becomes clickable when I post. Otherwise, copy and paste that address into your browser. Cheers).

seattleite · 2 years ago

Kermit: You work is terrific. Your cell phone map is still one of the best pieces of work on this blog. Thanks.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Great work Kermit. I love your sense of humor. I think the Perugia LE could use your analytical and mapping skills

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... Kermit Download it at:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5kwcoj9jm0j
(I hope that becomes clickable when I post. Otherwise, copy and paste that address into your browser. Cheers).

thanks for that, so RHG/AK could have got a lift off Bulagaio from RS who went to the car park?

AndyT · 2 years ago

Someone smile at me too.

xin · 2 years ago

Loz: I think they are on some kind of cycle--maybe two weeks or so it seems--to review their stories and to see if their memories have improved. plus they have a shot at getting released. even when RS asked to speak (and then he clammed up) he waited a couple weeks.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

xin: do you not think at this point that AK and RS will have nothing more to say to the judge or investigators based on attorney advice, and that even RG will not say much, if anything more, for the same reason. They have nothing to gain and it would force (I hope) the prosecution to go forward with arrests and a trial sooner, where I am assuming (possibly incorrectly) that the prosecution will have to reveal all their evidence to the court (judges & jurors) and the defense. (Back to that Italian CCP question again)?

seattleite · 2 years ago

CW

I think she will address questions with the attorney trying to keep her in control. I would tell her to STFU but may be they believe she has a chance to go to house arrest or something. Amanda is Amanda's own worst enemy in this case...not because there is loads of proof that she is guilty but because she is Amanda.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

seattleite & others: Is AK's hearing tomorrow 12.17.07? I forgot. If so we haven't long to wait for the next "drama" she may express.

Loz · 2 years ago

I think they are releasing chunks of her diary to show she doesn't remember still, as an excuse for her not answering these qustions? we'll find out after if she answered them.

I think it could shoot them in the foot long-term though, because she can't blame her confusion on the duress of interrogation. Then again, she still has 'stoned/mashed'. BUT, I think the prosecution will show her & RS 'timelines' are very constructed?

Loz · 2 years ago

ah OK. thanks. and every 2 weeks, they can not claim to be under duress on each of those occasions. Thanks Xin

xin · 2 years ago

CW: So far Amanda seems pretty impetuous...so really...anything can happen at her hearings.
RS's attorneys have him on a leash, waiting for who-knows-what, and Rudy is scared, well, shitless, as he should be. No one has been charged yet, so there lies ahead a very clear reason to talk.

The fact that AK and RS are silent begs the opinion that they've got something to be silent about. Neither's past predicts any sort of comfort in being in jail. Aside from everything else, they are poised to become the potential RUIN of their families, if only considering the $$$.

seattleite · 2 years ago

PL declined to talk further too. I chalk that up to attorney saying "you got nothing to gain given how they treated you...decline to help them further ensnare you." Amanda does have something to gain...maybe house arrest at the nunnery (all puns intended).

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

seattleite: Yes, agree maybe as the singing nun.....

AndyT · 2 years ago

The fact that Pinecone and Co. have fallen for AK's "frame him" "alibi" I find really quite shocking. For some time now, AK's strategy had been patently obvious to those with knowledge of the crime facts.
To frame RHG, AK's strategy was to:
1. remove all dna apart from RHG's --- she achieved this almost 100 percent by bleaching everything, washing MK's clothes apart from certain "key" items, and disposing of her own bloodied pullover.
2. tell police that she saw a black man at the scene --- to get them on the "perp's" trail. (She achieved this by saying that she saw PL - he was ideal because he was black like RHG. Of couse she couldn't say it was RHG himself, because that really would have placed her at the crime scene.)
3. draw attention to the "perp's" DNA --- remember her going on about the shit in the toilet

It's quite possible that RHG was also involved in the assault, but he - unlike AK - has no motive for the murder. Moreover he has no weapon, because LE have stated from the outset that the stabs were caused by a knife (or knives). Pinecone's "piece of glass" theory is so outrageously nonsensical that it sounds to me like something out of Alice in Wonderland or Harry Potter. Also almost beyond belief is Pinecone's cute idea that MK was assaulted by a single perp. The chances that a perp, acting without accomplices, could have forced MK into oral sex while simultaneously inflicting knife wounds are very small in my view - and this is backed up by the professional literature.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Andy: The reason I have gone over to the Pinecone and Co. is because absolutely no new "solid" (non-circumstantial) evidence as been presented in the last three or four weeks linking AK to being at the crime scene at the agreed period that the assault/murder of MK took place (21:30 - 22:30).
Please bear with me for my points.
1) She made a statement to LE, obviously under great interrogation stress (in US it would be unacceptable in court) that she was there in person in the kitchen and heard screams, PL, etc. She later recanted this statement and claimed it was made under duress. Such statements are weak as evidence of guilt.
2) There is supposedly a CCTV video of her entering the house at exactly 20:38 pm. If that video exists? OK, assume it does. It is hard evidence she entered the house at that time. Where then is the same camera when she exits the house, at what ever time, 23:30, 01:30, or 02:30 the morning of the 02 Nov, or even 21:00 on the 1st just before MK arrives shortly after 21:00?? So this becomes week evidence along with why no CCTV image of an RG or other perp leaving the premise at 22:30. Just eye witnesses, notoriously weak in these kind of cases.
2a) So being circumstantial, without further camera evidence, as her attorney I weave a scenario for the court. Yes AK met RG at the basketball court at 20:30 on the 1st to buy some hashish. The transaction was completed and she went on to her house at 20:38 to get something else to take back with her to RK's. RG followed her surreptitiously. AK enters house. leaving door ajar since she is just going back out and RG sneaks in to rob the place hiding in Filomena's bathroom ( right close to the entrance) or room until AK leaves. After she leaves RG ransacks Filomena's room and then hears MK come in. Or even they complete the deal at the house instead of the bb court and both leave. (a reason for AK to stay quiet). RG hangs around and sees MK (an extremely attractive woman) arriving at the house and forces himself upon her and into the house. Take your pick. The rest is tragic history.
3) A drop of AK's blood is found on the bathroom sink that AK and MK share. So what? That is circumstantial only. The blood could have been left there earlier in the day, even when RS, AK and MK were all still at the house. She could have had a bloody nose and just not wiped it up. It was her shared bathroom.
4) AK's room was clean of all finger prints and traces of DNA. Appears even to have been cleaned with bleach. Attorney: Yes she cleaned it earlier that day. She hadn't been using it except to come and go since she was sleeping and staying at RK's every day/night for the past two weeks. But she decided to make it presentable for everyone anyway, having time to give it attention that holiday after hard partying the Halloween eve before.
4a) Again totally circumstantial and not hard proof of her presence at the time of the murder.
4b) I cannot buy into the idea that there was any cleanup by AK, AK & RS or anyone. If AK & RS were cleaning up why did they leave specs of blood in the bathroom sink (not the feces bathroom) and the blood diluted by water on the floor or rug. Rather stupid for people smart enough to manipulate a crime scene of their own presence, etc. More likely a panicked and careless killer was cleaning himself up before getting out of there. And who says AK washed MK's clothes. Maybe MK washed her own and just left them in the washer. See previous posts on this conjecture. We do have enough info on this item of the washing machine.
5) Her behavior as described by the press, quoting friends and acquaintances at the police station isn't even evidence let alone circumstantial evidence. It wouldn't stand a chance in court. All it is is inappropriate (if some wish to call it guilty type behavior, so be it) behavior for someone who was a roommate and supposed friend of the victim to most of us. If the court allowed such testimony as these descriptions of her behavior, an attorney would find counter testimony as to that her behavior was a result of her own shock and incomprehension as to what had happened to her roommate;
Now I am sure you are going to go "that is nonsensical" and that is fine, you are as entitled to your opinion as I or any one else. I am just trying to point out a counter viewpoint that the evidence against her is weak from a legal and hard forensic standpoint, say as compared to the evidence against RG.
6) Finally I will throw in the cell phones of RS and AK go off at the same time (I remember that time as 21:00, I wish someone would reverify it, but I think Xin's timeline is 20:45. Either way how do the LE know they were turned off. The phones very well may have been placed together say next to RS's computer while they were at RS's house and electronic interference kept them from either broadcasting a signal (ping) or receiving a call or text msg because they were out of range.
6a) Even PL said you couldn't place a cell call from his bar because the interference was too great. You had to go outside to place it. Once I heard that from him I was even more assured of his innocence because it meant to me that one wouldn't have to stroll very far from his own Le Chic before the next close tower (one near AK & MK house would also pick up the signal. Multiple towers must pick up a cell's location, otherwise there would never be a smooth hand-off off a call without it being dropped (early days of cell technology).

So obviously I am out of breath and this is very long, but it is my case for the defense of AK unless, and it is a very big UNLESS, the investigating prosecutor or judge publicly states more solid evidence against her and not just conjectured theories based on this circumstantial evidence. They may have more to tell us yet. I will wait for it.
The same goes for RK who's only solid evidence is the shoe print. One piece of evidence does not not make a guilty verdict unless that evidence is a signed confession. I rest my case for leaning strongly in the Pinecone theory box as of now.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
coyotewaits1) She made a statement to LE, obviously under great interrogation stress (in US it would be unacceptable in court) that she was there in person in the kitchen and heard screams, PL, etc. She later recanted this statement and claimed it was made under duress. Such statements are weak as evidence of guilt.

True, but she has had plenty of R&R since.
Yet, her memory still fails her. Both she and RS have exactly the same gaps in memory from that night. Yet, they remember alot of similar details.

That to me is suspicious.

This I feel ties in with the whole free press thing. I personally think it's a good thing that her failure to remember and her statement being almost an exact negative of RS statement is in the public domain.

Perhaps a lot of things that have come out in the press, well perhaps it would not have been able to be used in court, just because of rules.

Like I said, I don't think she can rely on that 'stressful' interview forever.
Even if it's not used in a trial, she's still not been able to get her story straight.

The free press thing can be really useful. I personally think some journo should investigate if AK really did organise an april fools assault on a fellow UW student. I think though, that if it does exist, even if charges were brought (which I doubt), it couldn't be used in a court of law. espcially since, it's one persons word against the other (I can't see the fellow pranksters of AK confirming anything). it's probably just rumour anyway.
Like in England a jury couldn't hear of a suspects past convictions for rape, or pedophilia, or any accusations anyway. until after the trial.
Alot of stuff about Huntley (Soham murders) and the guy in the Payne thing, came out in the press or in the public domain only AFTER their trial(s).
----------------------------

and in the US, in some states at least, she'd face the Death Penalty or a heftier jail stretch...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Loz True, but she has had plenty of R&R since.
Yet, her memory still fails her. Both she and RS have exactly the same gaps in memory from that night. Yet, they remember alot of similar details.
That to me is suspicious.

Without a doubt that and many other of both AK and RS statements are suspicious. And I believe they are being held on those very suspicious statements in addition to the circimstantial evidence. Even in the USA a person can be tried and found guilty on circumstantial evidence only but it usually has to be the "beyond a reasonable doubt" type "c" evidence. I think so far there is plenty of reasonable doubt evidence against both AK and RS and not much beyond a reasonable doubt evidence.

That said, I have to make a distinction again between Criminal Code Prosecution in the USA and what it may be in Italy and hope our Italian posters can continue to advise us. In the USA these people would probably be out on bail; RG probably would not be. Furthermore they wouldn't even face bail proceedings without being arrested first. So they can say anything they want at anytime before arrest and it could never be used against them (with some exceptions under probable cause such as wire tapping, an informant testimony, etc.) But once arrested they now have Miranda rights and anything they say can be used against them.

In Italy. I have no idea. They can be detained while not yet arrested. Are prosecutors allowed to use their pre arrest diaries as evidence; use their interrogation statements as evidence; etc., when they are finally brought to trial after arrest? I have no idea? Wish I did. This will make a very big difference to whether they can be found guilty or not in a "fair" trial.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

she has had plenty of R&R since.
Yet, her memory still fails her. Both she and RS have exactly the same gaps in memory from that night.

See my posts below about heavy binge hashish use and alcohol use below.

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... and http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

no joking intended this time. I don't know. Everyone here seems to remember smoking weed and never having any short term memory loss. To the contrary my long ago experience I recall that short term memory loss was a classic symptom of hashish smoking.

I do not wish to embarrass anyone here, but did anyone else have that experience. Maybe marijuana was different and had higher levels of THC in my day (Mexican & LA varieties). Besides hashish often was different then and came in cake form mixed with some opium. Is that still true today in Europe?
Just asking? Everyone seems to find AK and RS memory loss convenient rather than possibly real. Again, if I was a defense attorney I would have lots of pharmacologists and psychologists expert witnesses on the stand if prosecutors chose to go down this avenue as evidence of wrong doing and covering up.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... coyotewaits "Everyone seems to find AK and RS memory loss convenient rather than possibly real."

It would not be so suspicious if they didn't remember all the same tings and have identical gaps. sorry. it's 'too constructed'.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"To the contrary my long ago experience I recall that short term memory loss was a classic symptom of hashish smoking."

I smoked hash one time, a long time ago. I was in a country that seems to have legalized all drugs. I think I did it only because I wanted to know why it's not legal in most places.

I knew right away it was not something I'd be doing again. I hated the feeling of not being able to focus and remember from one minute to the next what had happened or been said. Time crawled. Minutes seemed like hours. I thought that day would never end, and then I felt tired and dopey for days afterwards.

I can believe Amanda's story.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"The free press thing can be really useful."

After reading some of the lies, distortions and inaccuracies about this case in the British press, I can understand why the courts there lock down press coverage of local criminal cases.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Nice post, CW. You covered several areas I've considered (e.g. cell phone signals), but was too lazy to put into words. Perhaps your comments will help others determine the value, or lack of, of various types of evidence.

Loz · 2 years ago

AndyT "Pinecone's "piece of glass" theory is so outrageously nonsensical that it sounds to me like something out of Alice in Wonderland or Harry Potter"

100% agree with you there.
If RHG used a piece of glass as a single perp, which I find illogical, then he'd have more hand injuries from handling that glass shard than just one slash.

Unfortunately for pinecone, the fact that RHG has only one slash on his hand is the one key thing that does indeed support the fact that it was a defensive wound.
Admittedly, he could have done it himself with a knife or on glass. BUT the fact is his hands would have more than just one gash if he used a shard of glass (IMHO) he would have been cut while plunging it, and cut again when removing it from the neck. His fingers would have cuts on them from gripping it too. Infact, if a shard of glass was the murder weapon, his hand would be cut to ribbons. IMHO anyway.

It doesn't mean he didn't have a knife, it's just VERY strange that he should have accidentally 'slashed' his hand with it, yet not his fingers. I mean, even if he picked up a knife in the wrong way, why are his fingers not slashed?

tomcat · 2 years ago

Just pure speculation, but if it is a defensive wound on RHG's palm then it could be there for the reason he has publicly stated. If it happens to be a false statement, however, could it be that Meredith, in fighting for her life, at some point managed to snatch either the small blade or larger weapon to defend herself with during the struggle? Could this be how RHG received the wound to his palm?

If Meredith grabbed the small blade, could this be what necessitated the use of a larger weapon by her oppressor/s?

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... tomcat "could it be that Meredith, in fighting for her life".

Yes, definitely, but what it can't be is a shard of glass as the murder weapon IMHO :)

seattleite · 2 years ago

Pinecone wrote: I believe RS's attorneys have documentation that will prove the police are mistaken about the times of the phone calls.

In US, even in the smallest police departments, there is a 10 code (which I forget though I did work as an RO at a police department) which says to the dispatcher that "I have arrived on scene in answer to a complaint". Do not know if they where doing that in Perugia or if they estimated their arrival time after they realized there was a crime...since they were returning the cell phones (essentially a lost and found and a possible harrassment call) it may be the time they met the lady with the cell phones for all we know.

10-23

I looked it up..

meman · 2 years ago

(off topic)...Kinda like this site now...thanks Steve....also I believe this site is perfect for coyotewaits...now instead of him dishing out medals........he can give points

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Very well, Chris. It makes sense to me to create new posts. I hope the commenters who were skeptical about Rudy's DNA on the vaginal swab have seen the news about the DNA on the bra. The more evidence that points to him, the less likely it is for anyone else to have been involved.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Meredith Kercher, Rest In Peace........you will be remembered, we here will remain to be witnesses that the truth be known and justice served

Loz · 2 years ago

from the floorplan provided through these comments pages, it doesn't even appear that MK had a wardrobe. Nor AK. Infact, Guede said Krcher kept her underwear in her bed-side table. I could be wrong, but it appears the ownder didn't provide the renters with a wardrobe.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Loz: from the floorplan provided through these comments pages, it doesn't even appear that MK had a wardrobe.

Yes, there was definitely a two door wardrobe in the picture, like an armourie (sp). That is clear from room photographs

Loz · 2 years ago

ah yes i am blind! no good w/ pictures, see what i wanna see? ski masks lol

Loz · 2 years ago

" I did recall that they matched his fingerprint to his visa application which was on file. "

which means he wasn't even printed from his last arrest?
I think there is mis-information out there. Maybe they just knew who he was from AKs phone(s), and once caught in Germany, it took so long to extradite him, because they were running the forensics.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I think what happened to ID RG initially was by running the information on cell phone numbers in AK's phone. They then knew several people who they contacted for statements. Same with RS's and PL's phones. However, when they found prints at the crime scene that didn't match any of the three arrested, nor any of the other 7 house mates, they probably started an electronic match of prints against a known database of which RG would have been included given his previous arrests. That is when they announced they were looking for a fourth suspect, knew who he was but would not state his name for fear of his fleeing Perugia. However, they did start interviewing people around the city showing his picture. At that time they didn't know he had already fled. Later they would find his whereabouts through his internet messaging to a friend (now never mentioned).

Loz · 2 years ago

Cayote - Makes sense! thankyou :)

chrischris · 2 years ago

loz--- am i doing something wrong with this new thread? I posted some interesting news about rudy dna found on MK bra--and no one has commented. I have my system set on "flat" not "thread" so that means comments that are posted as new comments, not as replys, are up top, and then I have to scroll down to here , where I am now to look for recent comments that were made under "reply"

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Sorry, Chris. I intended to comment immediately about your news...Rudy's DNA was found on Meredith's bra..but, I got distracted in trying to figure out where I wanted to put my comment. Anyhow, thanks for that update. It seemed that the judges decided Meredith didn't know Rudy before November 1. I want to see how he explains this, or who he blames for planting the evidence.

chrischris · 2 years ago

pinecone-- The only way I realized you responded to me was Loz's suggestion that I gointo my profile by clicking my name and seeing replys---did not see this until I clicked view all replies , the third button. please if you can, respond to my comments by creating a new post, I would really appreciated that a lot. Or else I know I will miss your brilliance ;-)

Wierd pinecone--I just saw your post now in the "flat" format which you made 22 minutes ago. I did not see that before.

Loz · 2 years ago

"being on her knees in front of the wardrobe" - because of where most of the blood was? because maybe it wasn't on the back of her head, or all up the side of her head?

Maybe that's why they expected it on her legs? It didn't run down the loose jeans cos she was bent over.

She had her 'loose' pants on fully or partially because her jeans soaked the blood off the floor?

the floor was tiled?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Select "Flat" under "View Posts" at top right, and you can use this just like the old thread. It gets rid of the hierarchy.

The arrows let you "rate" the post (as you will see from the tool-tip if you hover over them). These ratings only matter if you choose to sort by "Hot" or "Best".

meman · 2 years ago

did I figure this out yet?

stevehuff · 2 years ago

I think you did :)

voicelessvictims · 2 years ago

I thought you were supposed to be resting, Steve!

I can't make sense of all the different folks that are alleged to have been at the crime scene. Who was actually there, and who killed Meredith? It seems so confusing. I am sure it will be harder to sort out with people that keep changing their stories. I feel horrible for Meredith's family.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

I have been resting, and still am. This was some of the easiest blog upgrading/changing/whatever I've had to do.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Loz —Today 03:21 PM
"yes, I think she'll get away with her crime. RHG, what is he getting out of protecting her though? He could well land her in it. He's already admitted to being there.
ah, maybe she is innocent after all."

This always bothered me also Loz. Given in the back of my mind I have never been able to quite shake off as you say, that someway, somehow AK and RS were involved.
But as you say, with all the evidence they have on RG (and his lawyers have to know it and perhaps more) why is he not naming AK and/or AK & RS. It's baffling. The only thing I have been able to shake loose from my feeble neurons is that he isn't naming them because 1) they really weren't there "when he was" or 2) if he outs them, he knows they will just out him back and say together (2 against 1) yes, RG killed MK while we were smokin' and lovin' in another room.
If number 2) is close to the truth it explains why the three of them maintain a conspiracy to not tattle on one-another. They have everything to lose and certainly nothing to gain.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Xin wrote:" kermit might BE perugia LE"

Ha! I always wanted to be like Steve McGarrett. When he spins around on the highrise balcony in the title sequence of Hawaii 5-0, just after the hula dancers hips just about knock you out of your arm chair.

No, I'm just your average frog.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Can't be a cop...too funny.

RobertM · 2 years ago

As Nero Wolfe was just your average orchid grower. I wouldn't have known where to begin.

belle · 2 years ago

High-larious... someone docked me a point on my 'confession' post! Who says they don't miss elementary school? It's ok, no more 'narkiness' here. I got nuthin' but love for y'all, even the haters. As Xin would say, "have at it."

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

"During the questioning by the Police has had other difficult moments. For example - still according to what we have been able to apprehend - when some details about Meredith's death have been contested to her, details regarding the position of the corpse and the murder bedroom, to which she had referred in the Questura (Police headquarters) on the 2nd of November, talking with some victim's friends. These are details she couldn't know, unless she had been in the house in Via della Pergola that night."

gee then seattleite had it right. The LE is referring to hearsay testimony from friends. Oh gawd, I've got to go wash my car in the winter snow. bye!

belle · 2 years ago

kay, read almost everything... wow! I want to read this new journal from AK... I'm guessing that since her italian is probably no better than mine, it should make for a simple translation. Shall I post it here, or is it already old news?

another thought concerning AK and RS guilt/cleanup or no... it seems suspicious to me that RS would have paid such attention to the mop, noticing Meredith's jeans etc. in his journal if he were oh-so-innocent. People keep saying that lies are told with truth interjected. If he had nothing whatsoever to do with this, then why would these details have made it into his account while he makes such a big deal about not being able to remember anything else?
AK as well, with her "I have no idea what I did that night, but ONE thing I'm sure of is that RS had blood on his hand at 11:30pm" Why was this detail included in her otherwise foggy account?

One more thing, apparently no one wants to admit to smoking marijuana or hashish apart from "that one time... soooo many years ago" so I'll go ahead with it. OK, I DO! I started back in high school (the schwag from "The Avenue" before upgrading to "the kind") Here in Italy you don't find the NoCal green bud, but hash is abundantly available from pretty much any park, grocery store (outside, not at the cashier ((unless they're a friend?))) bar or restaurant.

sidebar- When I first arrived in Italy in 09/06 I was traveling alone on a months holiday, my friend couldn't save the money so I flew solo, and I made a casual reference to my waiter at the bar where I was having dinner the first evening after arriving. We'd been flirting, I'd had a few glasses of wine... a few hours later after he'd closed shop we were sharing a joint, (hash with tobacco) 15 months later, we're living together planning our wedding. We smoke a joint together in the evenings, no biggie. Certainly, it's not something we will continue to do when we begin to plan our future family.
That said, my memory is EXCELLENT. I remember what I eat, conversations, can recite commercials after 2or 3 viewings not to mention entire scripts for movies and plays. Ok, don't ask me where my keys/sunglasses are... but that's it. I am pretty sure AK was a veteran potheaed, finding the migration from West Coast green to hash hardly phasing, and I seriously doubt she had a pinecone experience on Nov 1.

The last thing I want to say is about this new page. I really liked how with haloscan, when people posted links they would open up in new tab. <was this the case for everyone, or something to do with my computer? Please come back squiggle :( Here, if I try to open a link it redirects the page and I have to scroll around looking for my place upon return. I prefer the old way. That said, I love my little 'faith' pic ;)

chrischris · 2 years ago

I view this blog in Flat mode, and scroll down to the bottom to see Reply mode, I am sure I am missing stuff though.

So, the shoe print doesn't fit most likely. Not surprised.

hearsay about Amanda talking about the crime scene. Hmmm doubt that.

Love your story Belle, it is beautiful, congratulations!

xin · 2 years ago

I have a prescription, hundreds of *dispensaries* in california. it's like shopping in the produce dept--brands, sales, specials, ratings.

RobertM · 2 years ago

one toke over the line, fer shure then!

xin · 2 years ago

yup and i confessed it to my adult son (with another sleezier tech confession) since we LIVE IN A PANOPTICON (as foucault) and we have NO PRIVACY which is how i defend guilty until proven innocent. bought gas? have you flown? do you have a cell phone? that's why no matter how curmudginly or peevish CW gets, I try to be nice since i appreciate knowing to take out the battery and put it by the tv if i am up to no good. scott peterson taught us that if you call the cell Operator, and then they connect you to the number, they can't find who you called. It's all just O.

I hope you find this and that i am not messing everything up and that i am not construed as a big fan of disCUSS. (hi daniel)

now, raise your hand if you've had your bank accts closed by HomeSic on accout of no record (they could find, haha) of an earth addy for me.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Well, I haven't tried yet, xin to find your land-addy, and as I use only the open stuff through google, I'm not always successful. To really work at it, I'd have to
belong to the pay-us-DB sites. But with THAT hint, I just might be able. Don't forget, we all leave asides about ourselves, scattered throughout these Steve-site posts.

Rhonda · 2 years ago

I so agree belle, like I said before" you may forget where you put your keys but you sure as hell won't forget where you were or who you slept with." There is a vote pool on Perugia Shock site about memory loss and smoking hash and pot >95% no memory loss 5% say memory loss. And yes I am experienced...not just in my past.
Love your Italian love story...have to admit I was curious how you ended up in Milan.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

"The moments of difficulty. Nel corso dell'interrogatorio, però, la ragazza ha avuto anche altri momenti di difficoltà. In Corsican of questioning, however, she also had other moments of difficulty. Ad esempio - sempre secondo quanto si è potuto apprendere - quando le sono stati contestati alcuni particolari relativi alla morte di Meredith, alla posizione del corpo e alla stanza del delitto, cui lei avrebbe fatto cenno in questura lo scorso 2 novembre (quattro giorni prima del fermo) parlando con alcune amiche della vittima. For example - according to what we have been able to learn - when you were challenged some details of the death of Meredith, the position of the body and the room of the crime, which you would have mentioned in the police last November 2 (four days before firm) talking with some friends of the victim. Particolari che non avrebbe potuto conoscere se non fosse stata presente, quella notte, in via della Pergola. Details that it could not know if it had not been present that night, in Via della Pergola. "

This doesn't make sense at all. AK saw the body was present when the police broke down the door, so she would have details about the body to discuss with friends or MK. This reportage by Italian press is abominable. If it was good journalism they would be reporting the actual details, questions and her answers of the interrogation on 02 Nov. But they don't. Yet the questions and answers must have been iterated to AK at this hearing as they pressed her for answers to their implied inconsistencies. This is just coercive interrogation, these hearings, obviously still trying to coerce a confession of some sorts from each suspect. I wouldn't answer a damn question either. Under the Italian system a suspect has no rights, obviously, when they can be jailed without arrest.

I hope both RS and AK and RS just stick to their guns and remain silent. Not because I think they are innocent or guilty, but because they need to force the authorities to take them to arrest and trial. Yeh, I think I know why Italy has their detain before arrest system. It is a holdover from Vatican medieval days of forcing confessions from anyone because they couldn't really solve the crime anyway. I now completely reaffirm my position with Pinecone's theory that AK and RS are innocent of the murder, possibly bought drugs from RG just prior to the murder, because (my position) the LE just does not have the hard forensic evidence to place them at the crime scene like thay do Rudy. They are fishing for a confession and an entrapment by statement because of this. And we probably will not see a trial until a year from this past November 1 because LE is hoping a year in prison as a non-indicted suspect will break them. As I noted, using the archaic methods of Vatican police tactics.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Amanda saw into the room on November 2 for a very brief time--RS talked about pulling her out almost immediately. All she should have been able to see is a foot sticking out from under the duvet. Perhaps she gave details about the placement of the arms or other leg, etc.

DLW · 2 years ago

Just information. Tonight on the Fox news channel, Geraldo Rivera had about a 15 min segment on the Meredith Kercher case. Nothing new here, but one of the working theories is that Meredith may have actually walked in on Amanda & Rudy while they were in the process of stealing money from her room?? They also had a prosecuting attorney and a defense attorney debating what role(s) Amanda may have had.
It’s on again tonight at 11:00 PM New York time. If you have a tivo and /or access to Fox News (channel 205 on Dish Network), it comes on about 5 min. into the segment.

meman · 2 years ago

I know I am not a murderer or a thief, so I may have a hard time thinking like one.....But for me to believe that theorie its just to hard to swallow.......The other roommates were gone,so the only other person left would be Amanda.......and wouldn't she know where Meredith would be pointing the accusing finger at......Her....Amanda could not be that dumb......The only way I see that senerio happening is if they broke the window first.........then escaping before Merediths arrival................................But thats not possible because it was reported that the window was broken from the inside......not outside.................................Thanks.....Will check it out on Fox

annarbor · 2 years ago

Hey, AK could always say that she wasn't there in the house--that she was with RS all night at his flat. If MK didn't believe that, she could always say that she was too high to remember....Her memory is all foggy (sorry, couldn't resist).

annarbor · 2 years ago

This is where the line from MK about AK being a "drugged up tart" woiuld come in. Mk, if she walked in on this would be furious! I am sure that she would have hit her limit on tolerating anything more from AK and would've threatened to throw her out and perhaps to call police.

We know that AK was capable of flying into rages herself and I think Mk's fury would ignite a similar fury in AK.

I dont believe that AK and Rudy on their own would commit murder--but i still believe someone else, perhaps Rudy's suppliere showed up, and I believe he was more ruthless. All theoretical opinion, mind you...

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"I dont believe that AK and Rudy on their own would commit murder--but i still believe someone else, perhaps Rudy's suppliere showed up, and I believe he was more ruthless. All theoretical opinion, mind you... "

Bear in mind that Rudy tore Meredith's bra off after she'd been stabbed. Do you think the ruthless supplier killed her so Rudy could have his way with her? The "real killer' had just stabbed Rudy in the palm, yet Rudy took time to strip and sexually assault a dying woman?

BeenHereAllAlong · 2 years ago

Rudy's supplier is no more going to show up on a delivery than a Domino's district manager is going to deliver your pizza.

Loz · 2 years ago

have you seen AKs ex boyfriend?

http://www.insideedition.com/ourstories/inside_...

crobinator · 2 years ago

what's this thing about a text being sent reading "Meredith dies"??

Did I miss the discussion of it in the posts? There are a lot of pages :(

xin · 2 years ago

The whole phone thing may be a key to the crime and will explain what's up with PL.
Everybody (!) turning off their phones in synch is one of the big, big mysteries, along with the role of the giallo couple.

Loz · 2 years ago

phones instead of car keys? eewww. RHGs phone was on though?

BeenHereAllAlong · 2 years ago

A point for Daniel for coming here, and a point to Xin for getting him. Thanks to both!

I'd love to know about fingerprints on those tossed cell phones.

meman · 2 years ago

either do I

Loz · 2 years ago

Pinecone et al...

also, if you would be so kind, who were the two people seen running in opposite directions at 10:30 pm.

And, if I am right, there was something heard at 2am. Who was heard at 2am?

--Il Messaggero reported yesterday that an unnamed woman professor had told police that she heard a “terrifying scream” as she passed the cottage at 2am. This would appear to be at odds with the official time of death, which pathologists originally put at between midnight and 2am but then moved back to between 10pm and midnight.

The paper said that a female student who lives near the murder scene had testified that she heard “strange noises” from the cottage garden at 1am, while another had said that a “coloured man” rushed past her from the direction of the cottage at 10.30pm.--

but for that mushroom.

fran · 2 years ago

Someone here is insisting there was a murder and he is the black one... actually something more happened that night that has involved others, some of them probably as witnesses.

Loz · 2 years ago

i agree fran. i think it's strange :)

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor:

Sorry if that came across as testy. I was writing in Dragnet mode.

Imagine a little smiley face. I do not know how to make those..

annarbor · 2 years ago

Thw smiley face is noted, seattleite, thanks.

You know that my theory is different than that of yours and Pinecone's. But I am not certain about anything in this case. You and Pinecone, even cw, seem so sure--I just want to hear your take on some of these issues.

muddy · 2 years ago

re shard of glass: the ILE have consistently mentioned right from the beginning 'knife or piece of glass'

I always thought it was slightly odd to mention glass: there must be a reason?

Loz · 2 years ago

broken window?

I've heard the weapon had a serated edge, I've also heard it was a 'punture' wound. Heard loads. Have to wait and see.

But, why isn't RHGs hand cut to ribbons?

muddy · 2 years ago

Loz, the broken window wasn't in MK's room (you didn't say it was - just for clarification).

So break a window from the inside then use a shard of glass as a weapon?........

I can see your point about RHG's hand. It all seems unlikely, but glass was mentioned right from the off.

Loz · 2 years ago

OK we'll have to disagree. I just think him breaking in downstairs & carrying a shard of glass around from that break-in is unusual. If he was anticipating someone, then as in the past, he'd have a knife on him.
Maybe there is glass in the wound.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"But, why isn't RHGs hand cut to ribbons?"

Maybe for the same reason the victim's throat was not slashed.

Loz · 2 years ago

Pinecone "But, why isn't RHGs hand cut to ribbons?"

Maybe for the same reason the victim's throat was not slashed.

==You've lost me pinecone. If he was handling a shard of glass, he'd have more than one gash right?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

He would not have said the window was unbroken when he fled unless he was trying to wiggle out of something bad involving the broken window. Maybe the edges of the glass were not sharp, or maybe that's where the bloody towel fits in. Perhaps he used a towel to wrap the edges, but the final forceful thrust sent the butt end of the glass through the towel and into his palm.
I guess we'll find out some day.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
well, the most likley explanation apart from if he was let into the house, is that if he is solely guilty, then he broke the window to get in.

However, unless he stalks & knows all the people in that house, maybe the lights were off?

It's just incredibly "brave" of him to break into a house that could have had a lot of people in it, and to do so early at night, rather than say 3am when it's more likely people would be asleep.

but not impossible.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Loz, for what it is worth, though I presently support Pinecone's theory that RG killed MK, I support that he had a knife with which he did it. The glass is a bit of a stretch for me also, given the comments in the press reports about her wounds, but anything remains possible at this point. I cannot image that RG didn't carry a knife constantly much as RS also did. Anyone who lives his life mostly on the streets, clubbing, playing bb, delivering pizza (I read where he did that occasionally) etc. (even though he did have a flat), I can't imagine not carrying some kind of legal weapon.

Loz · 2 years ago

agreed. I can well imagine RHG stabbed MK with a knife, rather than a shard of glass.

Loz · 2 years ago

anyway, we know AK should have prints in her room because we know her bedroom was her boudoir. we know she did some living at the house, because she didn't flush & clean.

we know this from statements from F&F.

erhw · 2 years ago

ok think i accidentally got there somehow- but had to log in (and therefore give my email etc. details) twice on what seemed to be two different pages? and now finally seem logged in. Not happy about that. Not sure I'd know how to repeat it either

Loz · 2 years ago

change is good.

RobertM · 2 years ago

THIS change has been NOTHING but a pain in the ass.

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

Hi Robert,

Which parts are a pain? I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

This is coyotewaits, danielha. Thanks for popping in. A couple points:
1) When you hover over the icon and select permalink to post in your post or reply, it includes the view configuration of the of the poster of the link (you are currently set to oldest & flat). After you post that link, the reader launching it has there browser reset to that configuration. No problem if you launch in a new tab but then if you forget to go back to your original tab or fail to back one page in your browser you are no longer in your own configuration.
2) see next post.

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

Hi coyotewaits,

I wrote a little about forum view vs. blog view here. The difference is that the view setting sticks in the blog view at the moment. It's up to the site-owner to set the flat/threaded setting, but we'll have this a user preference very soon.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

No daniel. I have been in forum view //truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/ from the very start. We are aware of that problem with using the embedded blog view (version).

Also Steve here allows either the threaded or flat view so that is not an issue. My other points, please? Points, there is that word again. My other issues? Please comment, thanks.

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

Sorry, I made a mistake in linking in my previous post. It's fixed now. I meant the blog view is the True Crime Talk blog.

I understand your other point. We'll take a closer look at this. Thanks for bringing it up.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Thanks for the reply on this issue.

xin · 2 years ago

edit: below

about 2 minutes ago
we need a date/time stamp

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

Hi xin,

I wrote about date/time stamps here.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Only when you are trying to find a previous post you wish to link too. I feel your pain then, though it is in my elbow and fingers from scrolling and scrolling and scrolling more, up and down, down more, back up *crying*

RobertM · 2 years ago

TIME STAMP DECISION

As discussed below by Squiggle and coyotewaits, it will be most useful to all of us IF we use a Hard Time Stamp, rather than the Relative one. I think we are agreed on that and now many of us can tell others how to access that function.

However, just WHICH Time Zone? We could go:
(I) Perugia time
(II) Greenwich MT, which might also be Perugia time
(III) Eastern US standard Time which is STEVE-TIME as he's in Atlanta
(IV) Central US ST (pinecone & coyotewaits I think)
(V) Pacific Time (xin)

I'd vote for either PERUGIA-TIME or STEVE-TIME, and Steve-Time over P-Time as its my time.

So whomever reads this post, please use the reply function to VOTE during the day & direct others here to vote also. Let's see what total we've got late today or tomorrow

Squiggle · 2 years ago

That should be "whoever". It's the subject of the sentence. There is far too much grandstanding here - people using big words in an attempt to sound impressive. I nearly commented earlier, and will do now, on a reference to the "Italian Jurisprudence System". Pretentious nonsense! "Jurisprudence" is the theory and philosophy of law. What was meant is the "Italian Legal System". A "Jurisprudence System", should it exist, would be run by universities.

RobertM · 2 years ago

http://www.answers.com/topic/who

"The grammatical rules governing the use of who and whom in formal writing apply equally to whoever and whomever and are similarly often ignored in speech and informal writing.

As I will put up with jargon growing out of professional usage, such as in software engineering, I will also put up with the variety of ways people use words here. If usage obfuscates meaning, I'll ask for clarification. And I am always prepared to be corrected as then I learn something directly.. Thanks for the note on the correct usage of "jurisprudence".

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Sorry for the tone. It's late here in Oz, and the red wine is kicking in.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

NO! I never suggested or agreed with this. It is entirely unnecessary!

You don't need to quote a timestamp when responding to a link. Use the 'reply' link below the article you are replying to. If you want to create a permanent link to the post you are referring to, follow my instructions at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

It would be madness to try to get everyone to change their profiles to a foreign time zone. For a start, any new arrivals would be completely lost. Use links. That's what the whole brilliance of the hypertext idea was about. Use the 'reply' link - that automatically creates very important links for you.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I vote "no" with Squiggle on the time stamp issue. At first I suggested the very same thing. See my post @ http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

But Squiggle clarified the no need by pointing out the little menu beneath our icons. "just hover" lol.

mare · 2 years ago

I vote Eastern standard time

Squiggle · 2 years ago

This poll was canceled almost as soon as it was started. See http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

RobertM · 2 years ago

Mr. Bogart was focused on the missing strawberries aboard the USS Caine, whereas both Charles Laughton and Trevor Howard, and later Anthony Hopkins, assayed the role of the bread-fruit-tree hugger William Bligh. But who played their Mr. Christians?

If you can't get the dashboard timestamp to function, Pinecone, then it must be a Master Setting Steve has to turn on. In fact, working with this laptop, I don't even have a "dashbaord", and all the stuff that was over on the right is now all at the bottom of the posts--except for the dashboard which isn't anywheres.

STEVE!! Turn on the time stamp function. Please. Thank you.

seattleite · 2 years ago

gable, brando, gibson

Thanks Fran for translation.-Skype call. This is evidence and the transcript is a document

My question is who is the leaker of this (which if not a "recreation") certainly sounds like a real call.

Who would have a copy.

The "friend" may have a copy if his computer was used as the client for the skype call. This is his lotto ticket to this case which others have already cashed: The Albanian--if he really exists--with his steamy sex fling with Amanda; the shopkeeper with the lingerie comment and video (cha-ching); PL reported as 70,000 euros for his "why Amanda hates me interview".

The police: But I can't see how this would help them.

The defense: They may certainly have been given a copy according to my reading of the (CCP )Italian Code Criminal Procedure and this could help them. But wouldn't they be held in the Italian version of contempt of court if they leaked this?

But since everything which has appeared in the papers which might be evidence in the case possible future testimony of suspects etc.-- and which didn't come from the judge or prosecutors-- has had a price tag on it...I am going to say "the friend".

RobertM · 2 years ago

OK, legal-eagle-briefs-not-boxers. Who was Bogart's "Christian" in the movie? Bonus points: who threw the potted tree over board from the US tincan at the end of yet another? And why was the submarine pink?

seattleite · 2 years ago

RobertM: Lemmon...throws the potted plant overboard /and I want a bonus point for identifying Pesci in Goodfellows for the canoli line.

RobertM · 2 years ago

I'll give you 2 points for the first response but only 1 for the second & not because you went with Hank over Van, but the line is from The Godfather Part 1 and its Clemenza who delivers it after the new guy makes his bones by killing the driver of the car. The canoli is on the front seat. (Unless of course they got Pesci to re-do it for self-referential fun in Goodfellas; that I don't remember.)

seattleite · 2 years ago

Robert M: Misread your quiz. Van Johnson. No red or white paint available for underbelly of the sub so they used pink...true story.

seattleite · 2 years ago

RobertM: You got it my friend. Hence my fetish for DOCUMENTS.

RobertM · 2 years ago

But you've got to get with THIS format, documentarily-wise. You were supposed to post "You got it" as a "reply" to my reply, and so this would be my reply to your reply to my reply & so. Intellectual nesting that makes a hash of discussion.

You are aware? that we now have a "seattle mom" as well as a "seattleite".

seattleite · 2 years ago

If you must. I like it fully chron cause I am usually doing a project when I am reading and writing on the blog. I wouldn't mind keeping it as a thread but I doubt most will do that so following along chron seems find.

RobertM · 2 years ago

OK. I want to be clear about this, chrischris. We swabbies are staging a take-over of the Good Ship True Crime over the objections of Captain Steve Bligh-Huff who LIKES the Post & Reply thread format? That is, we will sailing the ship along the Straight Lines of Post to Reply, Not Reply to Reply?

I have no problem with that, as I don't want to make a large post in a reply (though I see that I just have). But we are going to have to let each new poster know this as Steve's head-notes are rather biased in favor of the reply format.

So, is this waht we are saying?

DLW · 2 years ago

Rudy’s psychiatrist : Rudy is ’a fragile youth, not aggressive and above all non violent‘. Me: I wonder if he means by that he’s easily manipulated. In addition he says that Rudy regards women as ‘sweet, affectionate mother figures‘. Me: Some possible variation of Norman Bates of Psycho complex.

fran · 2 years ago

I can say that Guede is saying he met meredith in an Irish pub and then at the Haloween Party
He says he had some sexual contact with meredith, they had oral sex, but not a complete sexual relationship because they didn't have a condom
He says that when the bell rang he was in the bathroom and thought they were the guys living in the other apartment; the murderer had light brown hair (so at the time he thought about M's boyfriend)
He says the spainsh guys house at the Haloween party can confirm he was there
He says that when meredith found out about the missing money she said she had had an argument with Amanda the day before

Loz · 2 years ago

chrischris,
I have been flitting between the flat & threaded format. I always have posts sorted by newest.
I find the easiest way to look and see replies to my post is to look at my own profile (click on your name). It has all your posts there, and the replies to it. Just click 'replies'.
I think a good tip is to upload a distinctintive/personal pic from your PC into your profile, as a way of zoning in on your posts on this page.
Hope this helps,:)
ps: with the edit button I have no excuse for typos, spelling mistakes, or making too many posts!

sparrow · 2 years ago

Coyotewaits, the "everybody's afraid of" killer would be one who's connected. I have a hard time believing RS and AK are afraid enough of Rudy to keep silent. And I am now believing less the idea that AK is the one who holds power over everyone (but RS in a way), and that they are all so in cahoots. But there are such criminals in Italy that can't be prosecuted, I believe. Please any Italians chime in if I'm wrong. They can get away with a lot because they're connected. That's why people have to be afraid. Their power, or that of their friends reaches far and wide. It is best to have nothing to do with them if you can. It's easier for me to believe that all three are terrified of becoming more involved, by naming such a person.

Anyway, in the other thread I think it was Fran, said there may be a CCTV image of one of the people who fled the cottage, and RG's lawyers say it's not him. If this is true, it can open things up.

Buona notte.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Where is the evidence that MK was dressed when she was killed? Wasn't it merely supposition and speculation along with the so called "being on her knees in front of the wardrobe" by the ILE or the media reporting ILE leaks over 30 days ago and not since reconfirmed? I submit there is no hard evidence at all about this assumption. In fact, there is hard evidence to the contrary. That a vaginal swab found RG's DNA inside MK vagina or on the labia surface. That DNA could come from either semen or epithelium cells from friction of skin on genital tissue. You can't get your DNA on a victims genitals with their clothes on. Assume for now in our analysis that her clothes were off not on. We can hardly take very much of the reported evidence as fact and especially an assumption about exactly where and how she was positioned upon the fatal blow. It just never made sense at all to me that a so called sexual attack was staged after her death.

Either her clothes were on and the vaginal swab DNA is false or her clothes were off and the DNA is real. Either scenario makes more sense to me than someone stripping the body of clothes and faking a sex act by placing DNA? on her genitals all the while blood is all over the floor.

Lastly, if one was stabbed in the neck while on their knees and pulled back and upright wouldn't it be most likely that blood would flow (gush) downwards on to the shoulder, chest, back, hip and thighs/buttocks and onto either jeans? or bare legs? Why was there no mention of blood being found on her jeans or legs? However, if she was lying prone on her back on the floor, with her head compressed down on a pillow and twisted forcefully to the side to expose her neck to a threatening knife and then struck....blood would pool around her neck, shoulder, head and the pillow and floor, not coming even close to her legs. But as always, your opinion is as good as mine.

sparrow · 2 years ago

"But as always, your opinion is as good as mine."

Yes, and that's just a scenario I can believe based on Rudy's story. The main problem with it for me is, where is Amanda? The judges propose that Rudy was really there to meet Amanda to collect money she owed him. See story here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

I can believe this too, if I shift some opinions, and it's closer to what I used to believe. But I guess I am having a hard time seeing Rudy as that kind of a devil, one who would kill, and one Amanda and Raf would be afraid of. They all seem in way over their heads. This thing is bigger than anything they could do on their own. That's just my feeling. It could change.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

sparrow: "The judges propose that Rudy was really there to meet Amanda to collect money she owed him"

That is also the theory I now assume. AK was there to meet RG. But whether at the bb court or house. But I think prosecutors are theorizing about the stolen money, etc. It just gets very vague now. Did AK help Rudy to assault MK, did MK return to find AK paying RG off with her stolen money, etc., etc. Does go too far for my speculating brain now, until I hear more. Hopefully from RG's lips. I do think RG is the killer. If not why not name the killer. If the evidence against him so far is actual and fact, then he is all but convicted. He has no out. It baffles me the approach he and his lawyers are taking. But that may be the way to handle it with the Italian jurisprudence system, which I have no real understanding of.

What I discount almost entirely is that there is some other mysterious "everbodies afraid of" killer. And if and how, is RS involved? Waiting, that's all. I am just waiting.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

just testing, like it so far from a reading standpoint

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Where is the evidence that MK was dressed when she was killed. It was supposition and speculation by the ILE or the media reading the ILE along with so called being on her knees in front of the wardrobe. I say there is no hard evidence at all about this assumption. In fact, there is hard evidence to the contrary. That a vaginal swab found RG's DNA inside MK vagina or on the labia surface. That DNA could come from either semen or skin cells from friction. You can't get your DNA on a victims genitals with their clothes on.

Loz · 2 years ago

you can if he stuck his hand down? Maybe the jeans were loose? but then, no blood at all? past the 'loose' waist of the jeans? Jeans though, can be a 'dense' material. and soak up blood, fast enough? bah, not a clue

sparrow · 2 years ago

"You can't get your DNA on a victims genitals with their clothes on. "

Yeah, that's why I don't trust this DNA evidence. Ånd yes, that she was dressed was speculation based on what they saw at the crime scene. I'm choosing to believe this at this time.

And I know where DNA could come from during sex. What I was asking in that other post was do we know where that particular DNA actually comes from. I don't think we know. But it could be important. And the other possibility is contamination in the lab. DNA evidence is proof of the presence of cells from a person. It doesn't always tell us how it got on that particular swab. We have to trust. In this case I don't trust. If later it is reported that her legs were covered in blood, meaning she was unclothed when killed, I will change my mind.

Loz · 2 years ago

How would there be contamination? when they did th autopsy, they did not have guedes DNA, as they did not have Guede. I know he had a prior conviction, and that's where they got hiis fingerprint from, don't know if they had his DNA.
They had PL locked up at the time, maybe while they sorted the DNA out.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

That is a good point Loz, I also wondered where they came up with his original DNA as they stated the match before he was apprehended. However, if as now in the USA where any person convicted of a crime and jailed, whether felony or misdemeanor they are forced to give a DNA sample, meaning have a medical exam. So if RG had already been in jail for some offense they had his DNA. I did recall that they matched his fingerprint to his visa application which was on file.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

sparrow: And the other possibility is contamination in the lab. DNA evidence is proof of the presence of cells from a person. It doesn't always tell us how it got on that particular swab. We have to trust. In this case I don't trust.

Contamination is certainly a possibility with DNA comparative analysis, would depend on the lab and technicians experience.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

ansdm, you are almost certainly not at the right page. If you can't see "View Posts", you must be using the embedded version. Go to http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

seattleite · 2 years ago

ansdm:

Go Here:

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

set this as your bookmark...click NEWEST under Sort Posts By...click Flat under View Posts

It is now just like Haloscan.

Robert > · 2 years ago

Well, no, not JUST like Haloscan, but better than the Start format under the OP.

Steve, Steve, Steve: when you get the urge to just re-arrange the furniture (unless there's a real financial savings in doing so), PLEASE JUST SAY NO. If those 4 short words can have such a great impact on the War On Drugs, think of what they can do for us commenters.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

I don't agree. This is much nicer to look at, and more flexible. If you want it to be like Haloscan, choosing to sort by Oldest and Flat view makes the layout logically identical to that at Haloscan. So, nothing lost, but something gained. I imagine that viewing in threaded mode would be much nicer for someone catching up after joining late or a prolonged absence.

crobinator · 2 years ago

I agree with Squiggle. Nothing lost, a lot to gain. I've always seen Steve's posts, links, etc. as a forward motion. I think his writing, insights and research deserve recognition in professional forums, thus someone who writes as forwardly as Steve should have their work properly displayed. The more "fashion forward" in web design one can be, the better. I say Bravo. (See that? I related it to the case - I used Italian... oh so clever). --Christen

Loz · 2 years ago

What I don't get is why RS & AK are covering for RHG (at least AK anyway).
And Sparrow is right, RS could well be referring to AK helping RHG? Or maybe he's giving a reason why they left RHGs evidence all over the crime scene, and saying how RHG in the end was too helpful to MK?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

The source of the "helping people" quote was an unverified diary that was "leaked" by persons unknown. I wouldn't base any theories on it.
How could anyone possibly cover for Rudy? He was there alone with Meredith.

sparrow · 2 years ago

Well, I meant RS was talking about himself helping AK actually. I don't think they're helping RHG at all.

And I have to figure out better how this format works.

Loz · 2 years ago

ah ok thanks pinecone. soz for the misunderstanding sparrow. this flashy website is weird!

sparrow · 2 years ago

Yes. I think I will sit out and watch for awhile like Xin. I need to figure out what I did wrong.

seattleite · 2 years ago

breaking and entering

sparrow · 2 years ago

Thanks. I need to read more about that. True, I was writing without knowing the details of his record.

meman · 2 years ago

yep....pretty funky,i must add..............oh well

meman · 2 years ago

ok...I will, thanks

nursebeeme · 2 years ago

I LOVE THE WAY YOU HAVE REARRANGED THE FURNITURE HERE STEVE~OOOOOOO!!!! LOOKING GOOD, BROTHER!

Kermit · 2 years ago

Pinkdrummergirl, and anyone who is thinking of posting here: we're no longer using this page. The discussion has moved to:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...
Thanks, see you there.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Loz, you asked for the old internal houseplan. It's here.
http://www.mediafire.com/?4fxx2y2g5h9
Keep in mind that Amanda seems to have no wardrobe. The bathrooms aren't necessarily furnished correctly. Kitchen needs to be pushed back a meter.

Loz · 2 years ago

thankyou :)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hmm, the photograph and the video do not seem to line up right for me. I have to take another look at the video. Certainly your drawing, Kermit, looks correct by the photograph. Going to the video again.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I was dead wrong on MK's bedroom, Kermit. The wardrobe is on the same wall as the head end of the bed. Meaning that the wardrobe is just above and to MKs, left (upper torso, head) and her feet facing the door and wall where the desk sets.

When I first viewed the video several times I thought it was a pan of room right to left. Instead I now realize it is a edit cut after filming the wall above the head of the bed at the blood on the wall then a pan to the ceiling wood truss support the a start to pan the wall and CUT. Then next scene is panning the window, radiator below the window (in center, not to the left of that wall) and then to wardrobe. Except for the window location being in the center, your drawing is exactly correct. Still wonder if there was a blood trail from in front of the wardrobe to byt the bed. But in this case she was only moved two feet. At this point I can see a struggling self move as well as the possibility she was moved there by some one else.

Kermit · 2 years ago

The bathroom issue is confusing. I recall that both AK's and the victim's blood were found on the bidet. As regards RHG, in my initial comment accompanying the floorplan I said that probably Rudy's depositing of evidence took place in the little bathroom beside the victim's room. Later on one of the Italian TV programmes I saw, it said his DNA was in the big bathroom (on the other side of the house). Did he go that far to be more discrete? In any case, in another programme, it said that both bathrooms have provided evidence, but that may only refer to the cleanup effort.

Loz · 2 years ago

The RHG go potty doesn't make sense.
But seems to me RS reported the toilet bowl as clean because he may have been referring to the bloodied bathroom nearest MKs room, while AK may have been talking about the big bathroom. But RHG wouldn't he know which one he pottied in? It means his story doesn't add up.

Kermit · 2 years ago

AnnA!!!! Look at ChrisChris' comment just below!! Evidence is evaporating!!

Kermit · 2 years ago

No big deal, I've just reviewed the video and AK did have a wardrobe at the base of her bed (different orientation than what I put on the floorplan). Her guitar is resting between the wardrobe doors and the foot of the bed.

Kermit · 2 years ago

AnnA, I'll fume about it in my car on my way home. Will check in later to the blog. Cheers

annarbor · 2 years ago

I am completely stunned at the notion that, because they have allowed the shoeprint evidence to degrade(!?) that it may affect the case of RS. Certainly they know the evidence was there, and have done a fair amount of testing at this point.

I can't help but wonder if the Solecito money have helped to degrade this key piece of evidence. I know that may seem far-fetched, but so does the notion that by allowing the shoeprint to degrade, the case against RS ( or whoever the print came from) is weakened....

livnnlrnin · 2 years ago

Hi All...I'm new here and very confused? I'll keep looking around and try to figure this all out?? I've been reading Steve's blogs now for quite some time. I'd like to start discussing some of this with all of you if I'm smart enough. lol

Kermit · 2 years ago

Butter knife: that's how rumours are started. New knife "D" is just a normal kitchen knife. I referred to cutting butter to emphasise that it's not threatening. However it could be. (I'm starting to sound like Amanda: Maybe. Or maybe not.)

Loz · 2 years ago

the difference between a good fish knife like my gran would have used (ignore the handle quirks of these) http://www.aurumandsun.com/images/StainlessStee...
and butter knives: http://cookies.cookiesfromitaly.com/silverfromi...
AK did mention a meal of fish at rafes house, his hand had blood on it?
she knows more than she should then, if it is a fish knife, she was there & was involved!

to me though it looks like neither. it's massive. and if it was like a big master fish knife why is i not all 'silver' the handle is black. To me it looks like a bread knife or something. Unless it's a cheapo specialist fish-cookers knife. like what people who like to cook all different kinds of fish may have?

Kermit · 2 years ago

Okay, whoever out there has felt the local ILE didn't do a good investigation, I'm ready to pay my dues and join you. THERE's SNOW ON THE GROUND! The crime occurred a month and a half ago and now they're finding more blood stained hankies???!!!! It's frustrating, indeed.

Now, the little conspiracy theorist on my shoulder jumps out and asks, "why did RS's lawyers suggest a couple of weeks ago to go back to the underbrush under the cottage, to find "the real murder weapon"."

If knife "D" was there all along (even if it turns out to have nothing to do with the crime), some inspector should be fired.

Loz · 2 years ago

I disagree. on CSI they frequently do 2nd sweeps. fresh eyes. and also, in light of new information.
so, I disagree.

Yeah sure, the bushes should have been checked. bet it turns out RSs dad chuckd them there the other day & they turn out to be nowt. - ONLY JOKING :D

annarbor · 2 years ago

Kermit, I wondered the same thing about RS' lawyers--they seemed so specific about looking at the underbrush around the house. At the time it seemed crazy, because I was sure that the grounds had been scoured for evidence immediately after the crime. Ha!

You have to wonder if this could aid the defense. They can say that much of the evidence collecting was bungled and cannot be considered reliable...

Loz · 2 years ago

You have to wonder if this could aid the defense. They can say that much of the evidence collecting was bungled and cannot be considered reliable...

unfortunately maybe. BUT if the forensics they took / they did take at the time were sound?

Also, I had been following the mccann case and that brought up some interesting questions regarding the mccanns possibly disregarding forensics that are acceptible in the fresh Leslie Molseed & S.Lawrence case. well that's to do with dna i guess.

But all I am saying, is that yeah it's good to get to a crime scene fast. but what about forensics years after? I don't know :/

Loz · 2 years ago

besides, at this time of year, the leaves have rotted down more, revealing more.

but still, should have checked.

but like I said, csi do 2nd sweeps.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Hey everyone! An inspection has been going on in Via della Pergola today (maybe it's still on).

A knife has been found in the bushes, but it's a dull, round kitchen knife which probably has nothing to do with the crime (item "D" in the video below). Also, outside, additional blood stained hankerchiefs / tissues have been found (item "C"). Also, there is video of the inside of the house.

I have to update the first houseplan. The photo of Amanda's room in the first PPT is Amanda's room, but clearly empty (it was strange for me that there are no books, etc.).

In the video, you can clearly see her things, her guitar, etc.

http://news.centrodiascolto.it/video/id=221605/...

Strange she seems to have no wardrobe / closet. Also detail of the small bathroom. There IS a bidet.

Loz · 2 years ago

but kermit, in your ppt floor plan of the crime scene (2 ppts ago) you showed where the wardrobe was. and actually, I think it was beside the door but it wasn't clear. In fact MKs body was by the bed/wardrobe in its final position. but not in the position AK described?
look at the vid agan, the wardrobe has white/painted white doors, near the radiator. to me, don't know though it looks to be in the diagonally opposite corner to the bed. I will check your ppt to see how it compares.oh crud I deleted it. please have you got it again? sorry kermit :(

it doesn't look much like a butter knife to me.

thanks for the video it's great.
Unlike the CCTV, it's defo not a reconstruction of what the forensic officers found?
I don't wanna get into another ski-mask/car bumper fiasco!

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

One thing I note is that it sure doesn't look like AK's bedroom is cleaned up. I mean how can you bleach every where when there are books and papers all over the desk and clothes all over the bed and floor. This story about a bleach clean up of AK's room is BS. There might not have been any prints there but it wasn't cleaned up.. No prints = she hardly spent any time there in the past two weeks.

Second: Loz, keen eye. The wardrobe is in the opposite corner from the bed corner. The bed is adjacent (in the corner) to two walls, the long side of the bed to the wall with the radiator below the window. Adjacent to the wall space to the left of the radiator and window is one side of wardrobe which back is to the opposite wall from the head of the bed.

Thus when found on the floor covered by the duvet, her head would had been towards towards the night stand adjacent to the head of the bed (not shown) and her feet would have been towards the radiator/window direction with the wardrobe just to the left of her feet. Her right side would have been parallel to the open side of the bed. An easy position if she was on her knees facing the radiator to drag her backwards after a knife blow and drop her upper torso and head to the floor after only two to three feet of dragging.

I'm thinking forensic LE may have observed blood flow on the floor from in front of the wardrobe to the spot where her head & neck was dropped to the floor. Or she might herself tried to crawl back, I wouldn't speculate. But this makes sense if in fact she was killed in front of the wardrobe and then moved.

The question is, what is the blood pattern evidence. Again we don't know and police haven't told. Why. They don't want her lawyers to know so they can advise her interview answers to questions about her talking about MK being found next to the wardrobe.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Here's a better link (bigger size video, better resolution). This link is the whole lunchtime newsbroadcast. If you want to avoid the news items about meningitis, and other things, jump to the 6:00 minute mark (exactly) - or 13.04.00 on the timer/clock imbedded in the video - which is where the Perugia report starts.

http://video.centrodiascolto.it/public/notizie/...

pinkdrummergirl · 2 years ago

unfortunately these wont play for me, i dont have the plug-in, maybe cos i've got a mac...

Loz · 2 years ago

and one way, obviously the way it was misreported MK was found in her bed.
well, the police would have said MK was found under a duvet (which she was) and those 'lazy' jornos jumped to the conclusion that she was found under her duvet on her bed.

so, her lawyers can't really use that.

seattleite · 2 years ago

I dunno....I was saving up my points for Xmas gifts and I like my avatar and I like using my profile to track independent comments and the chron setting Newest/Flat was working fine...but I understand some people are using Mac and those funny browsers they have and RobertM runs Windows 3.0...so the Halo thingy would be quicker for them but remember what happens that page gets full...member...refresh with 2000 posts...done that a couple of times...jes saying.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

*laughs* seattleite: Please vote your heart so you don't wear out your head and all your fine thinking posted here.

pinkdrummergirl · 2 years ago

i've got a mac and disqus works fine. I like disqus...

Kermit · 2 years ago

Xin said: KERMIT: AWESOME (ref. NEW PowerPoint)

Sure Xin, I've no problem with any use of yours of the new PowerPoint. Keep in mind that I liberally used images from different sources, like any good user of Internet (a German tourist did the photo at the bottom of Raffaele's street, the University image is from a Japanese site, lots of composite images from Italian TV, etc.etc.), so it's not really me who you should ask.

Puzzler?? Are you out there? I hope you don't mind, I used your Fireflies quote from the old blog to open up the new PPT. It's great. We actually have a lot of information, some of it since near the beginning of this crime, and some of that quite important. Once in a while I reflect back in time and say "hey, what about those mobile phones" or "remember that image which shows how the house is almost buried (excuse the expression) into the hillside. Those are "fireflies". I'll take off your quote if you have any issues.

I like the new PPT because it gives you a spacial feel for the geographical relationship between these three characters. Actually, Frank at Perugia-Shock gave me the idea, as he mentioned that Raffaele and Rudy lived just meters apart, so I started to research it. Middie did a good summary map on the first blog, but it was so schematic that you didn't get a feel for what is a key feature of Perugia for me: the hillsides, slopes, stairways, ramps. That feature works its way into the events of Nov.1, and the immediate followup, as you see in the Powerpoint.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Just superb. And the appropriate photo detail. Now if you only had access to the papparazzi pics like through the windows, etc. Xin's time line with pics.

And puzzler's line, so apt. I missed that 1st time through.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...
It seems that traces of blood were found on the broken window and a handkerchief near a railing that surrounds the road above

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Loz: " E 'in fact been found in his room with the door locked. Era sul letto, coperta da un piumone. It was on the bed, covered by a piumone. Con la maglietta alzata e il seno scoperto, gli altri indumenti indosso. With the lifting shirt and discovered the breast, the other wearing clothes. "

Why do you think this article states MK was found on the bed, covered by a duvet when in fact we know from photographs of the crime scene that she was on the floor covered with a duvet? All I can think of is terrible journalism, thus I find myself not believing anything in such an article. What do you think?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

I agree with your disgust over the shoddy journalism. Even more offensive, to me, is the fact that judges and police have made false and accusatory statements. One could suspect they'd been misquoted, except that I've read nothing about officials objecting to any media mistakes.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Please do not misunderstand my posts. I am not challenging your ideas, thoughts, quotes or sharing of info in your posts. I just for some reason (today's reported AK hearing I guess) have a bee in my bonnet about this Italian and English journalists and their editors and poor reporting and really solicit your and others' here opinions of these articles.

Viv · 2 years ago

I'm not sure I can condemn that article utterly for poor reporting, cw. It dates from the 2nd November when information was slight, and the journalist seems to be saying 'it is reported' in acknowledgement of the rumours flying about in the immediate aftermath of the shocking murder (someone please put me right if I'm mistaken). Some rumours may even have stemmed from whatever Knox was gossiping about down at the copshop. Journalists can only use what they're given, hence the 'news' is just that: the latest, frequently superseded, intelligence. (I know I'm stating the bleedin' obvious, but I'm up too late to do any better). Some correspondents are doing a pretty good job of discarding the random stuff and trying to stick to the facts, as known, as best they can.

Translation errors (eg 'tampone'), piecemeal info from the police, defence and prosecution, not to mention remarkable literary flights on the part of the suspects, ain't helping. Any journalist will tell you that acres of newsprint about a case before a trial are not the best fields from which to glean the truth ;-) Which is a bit of a bugger for everyone here trying valiantly to make sense of all this...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

And BTW, in the USA the reporting is really not any better as to accuracy and real journalistic digging, but it very much less on the "drama" quotient. (except perhaps the London Times which seems to stick to facts).

Loz · 2 years ago

oh man i think she should cut her losses & tell the truth

Kermit · 2 years ago

PS. The PowerPoint is best seen in Presentation Mode.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hey!! I just noticed a change in the software today, that we had requested when daniel was here yesterday. We had pointed out to him that in the threaded version that replies were being presented with the latest (newest) reply first after the parent, instead of the most recent reply being posted last, i.e., the oldest reply would occur first in the time sequence replies were made.

The threaded view is now posting replies oldest first.. That's great. Hey, disqus is responding. Or maybe Steve is, not knowing how many control options Steve has as owner.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

For those of you who have been concerned about the refresh rates, load rates, and posting rates of the blog and as to whether it could be your computer or the software don't. Unless you are really using an old machine with Pentium2 processor. I am running a 5.2 ghz quad processor in a custom built machine (I do lots of photoshop and video editing) with a 8mb internet pipe and it loads slow for me also. about 5 seconds for posts but at least 10 or more seconds for refreshes. That means the servers are quite slow and under heavy loads. Usually that also means that as the blog files grow with more and more posts that it will continued to get slower and slower. So the software could use some module sectioning, described as chapters with links back to old chapters available by opening a second tab, etc. rather than reloading the entire blog from your cache and the internet every post or refresh.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

This is my own reply to parent link http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

The dual browser mode doesn't work because the disqus software does not word wrap the browser window to fit its adjusted size.

But the dual mode works good enough to have just seen Steve's post. And I was just beginning to really appreciate this software, enough that I really hoped disqcus would continue to improve it and make it more user friendly and even add more feature.

xin · 2 years ago

KERMIT: AWESOME
i like your commentary--that's what triggers thinking, revising, and fitting the pieces together.

on your comment about the noise of the perpetrators...i totally agree, and recall an early report (will find in my pile of 100 docs printed out for Dr. ForPsy) was that it was the sounds of *loud arguing* that came from the House of Horrors at 2 a.m. or so.

I feel like I am learning my way around Perugia a little bit.
Thanks so much for the mini-trip to Italy. Goes onto the blog, si?

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Seconding those who believe AK and RS are involved 1) someway, 2) guilty as charged, 3)anyway; is the fact that we, those of us here, just can no longer trust to use what we read in the press as evidence. Loz, you ask the question "what about AK's bleach clean room?" How do we know the room was cleaned with beach and there were no fingerprints? Did the policia scientifica on site tell you? No some media reporter heard it second or third hand through some leak and his/her editor decided it worthy to print. Has the subject ever come up again in the press. No. The only place the subject comes up is here. This is true for so much of the evidence. Reported today, never mentioned again, except here. Gawd I wish some of are really great sleuths here were investigating and reporting from Perugia, maybe even sleeping with the chief prosecutor for facts.

Maybe evidence is true, maybe it is not, maybe it is false and leaked. What we really all know now is that we shouldn't be able to trust anything we have been reading in the press, except perhaps the names of the principle prosecutor and the investigating judge and that they have the power to detain the suspects. For me at least, all bets are off as to who is guilty of what? But speculate away. Who be it me to try to counter any evidence reported in the press over the last 47 days and used in the press or here to build a case scenario. It would seem at this point anyone could pick and choose their evidence and build their case. Everyone's POV is valid and logical. I know I suffer from impatience and a need to know. So the results of todays hearing, as we heard it reported just frustrated me all the more, I guess. You are just going to have wait coyotewait[s].

Loz · 2 years ago

the bleach was a quote from the ILE / judges report? it may be false.
and ok, it's true, we can't build a scenario from such poor morsels

But I still stand by ALL my thoughts on their (RS&AKS) leaked statements & diaries etc etc.

and her (not literally) f-ing with the prison chaplin & nun.

xin · 2 years ago

who knows...?

annarbor · 2 years ago

Be liberal, but not with the facts
The opponents of 42-day detention should take account of stories from Italy and Spain

"Yesterday, the day on which the former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer of Thoroton effectively killed the Government's 42-day detention plan, was also the 43rd day that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito spent in custody in Italy in connection with the Meredith Kercher case.

I mention Knox and Sollecito, neither of whom have been charged, because their situation casts some light on the way the debate on detention has been conducted in Britain. Readers may remember that Liberty recently released a report “carried out by lawyers and academics in 15 countries” claiming that Britain had, in effect, the most draconian detention laws in the Western world."

Interesting article in the Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/column...

Loz · 2 years ago

hey, it's not possible is it, no cos he said he touched the bra, that AK put his blood on it? I think though he cut himself with a knife, or on glass (but he still used a knife). imh

i just keep wondering, why on earth did he leave the toilet unflushed. then again, he left bits of himself all over that scene...

Loz · 2 years ago

On the perugia blogspot a point was made he could have left it in there after the crime (during clean-up). I guess he could have done it before the crime too.

Maybe he was upstairs when MK came in. he quickly left the toilet to assault her.

Or didn't flush to keep 'silent' so she wouldn't know he had been let into the house by RS/AK.

then, they/he ambushed her.

and forgot about the toilet...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I never believed his story of hearing a scream and jumping up, pants down and all. I have always thought he just forgot to flush, because amongst other demonstrations of his rather less than astute thinking processes, he was just socially absent minded about using others' private toilets and instead treated them like his own or public toilets, that is, frequently just didn't bother to flush. He even , it was reported, used toilets to take naps. *l*

DLW · 2 years ago

Coyotewaits
I think another explanation why Rudy didn’t flush, was he tried and the toilet jammed. Some of those water saving commodes can’t handle much. He didn’t want to take the time to find a plunger.
I think he was also very edgy, and anything could cause him to panic & run for cover.

Loz · 2 years ago

I think it was to keep silent, so he could ambush MK, but I really don't know why she wouldn't assume it was AK/RS.

Unless they were with her in her room, or she knew they were in the kitchen & didn't have time to potty, and why not use the bathroom closer to the kitchen?

More likely he waited in that toilet, heard MK, and abandoned potty in a hurry to attack her.

I also think, wonderful as they are, peoples timelines regarding the mushroom snack are wrong.

i think she snacked JUST before being attacked. Maybe not a few minutes, maybe 5/10. But not JUST AFTER 9pm/9.15.

xin · 2 years ago

You are stunning belle. Love the pic.
Yes. All translations are very much appreciated.
I keep a list of useful phrases to use on my next trip (spring i hope)
here's one middie taught us:
"belle,
canna=joint
spinello=little joint
ciao
Middie"

world peace through slang


(you saw my reply to your post, yeah?)
there should be points-a-plenty piling up on this one

xin · 2 years ago

Today's (first version, may be updated later on) Telegraph UK is up.
http://tinyurl.com/2xonj9

This interesting bit appears at the end of the article:
(excerpt follows)
The police in Perugia are carrying out a further search at the scene of the crime and intend to take more photographs of a bloody shoe print found at the scene. So far, the police have been unable to match the shoe with any of the current suspects.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

xin wrote: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Thanks xin. I keep saying the LE doesn't have the hard evidence to put AK and RS at the cs. They are fishing based on their own theories of what happen, probably only slightly better than our own here since they know which of the evidence they leaked is really false. OK, not the shoe that fit (RS), doesn't fit, "ya got to acquit". The cctv pics, where are they? The hair in MK's hand, where is it? The witnesses, just maybe people who want to be involved, not real witnesses, still coming out of the wood work. The knife with MK DNA on the tip? Dr. Henry Lee and O.J. defense team to the attack of credibility of DNA sample? This will go on for ever?

But now hearing that the shoe that fit no longer fits. One is left with only three possible conclusion. LE is incompetent, LE and judges are corrupt and totally political to crass public needs, or LE has no solid evidence and keep fishing for confessions so they can support their own speculations. It happens frequently enough in crimes here in the USA as so many here continually point out.

fran · 2 years ago

Sorry you are hurrying up to conclusion too easily

RobertM · 2 years ago

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo. The Nike is NOT Rafe's!!! And as the article references "a" bloody shoe print, it has to be the one AndyT imaged for us two blog ago. The One & Only . "Case Not-closed". Gotta split.

RobertM · 2 years ago

OK. I've finished ny nested translation of Amanda Cries above. I don't have the correct absolute times as I'm not home. Please note my confusions over some sentence objects which definitely impacts meaning. Really, can some of the Italian speakers have a go at all that?

XIN despite thinking her guilty, you can see that Amanda really needs the Alioto woman as lawyer/mother hen. Put a phone call in. Especially as I don't see hie nor hair of Amanda's Dad in any paper references.

You know, this could be the FIRST Trans-Atlantic Court-TV production!!!

seattleite · 2 years ago

XIN:
So far, the police have been unable to match the shoe with any of the current suspects.

Speechless.

RobertM · 2 years ago

And the so-called "match" was indeed one of the points cited--if not the MAIN point--in the detectives' report to the PM on the reasons to hold Rafe. Are the Walls Coming Tumbling Down????

Loz · 2 years ago

Oh heck. here's all of the things she didn't answer:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...

crobinator · 2 years ago

Also to note (if it hasn't been noted already): 1) If you link to comments from the disqus page (to the truecrimeweblog.disqus.com), it will slow down your system unless you have a killer system - it loads every comment to one page. 2) the points system works on a give/take. The number of points you have is in relation to a) how much you comment; b) how often you give points to others; c) how often others give points to you. If you always comment but never give out points, you're more likely to have a negative "surplus" - if you will - of points. Play around and watch your points change. It seems random and broken at first, but if you calculate how much you post, then give a point, then ask someone to give you one as well, you can figure it out.

Pretty neat, actually. It sponsors camaraderie!

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

How idiotic, must have something to do with the youth of the programmers who are all into social networking web 2.0 -500 points to disqus.com

crobinator · 2 years ago

It does have a social networking ring, doesn't it? And not to be snarky, but interesting how some commenters can really get bent out of shape when their points are low. The presence of points, despite Steve's proper guidance to just ignore them, makes a person care, despite better judgment. Fascinating social commentary on its own. :)

crobinator · 2 years ago

my comment was not an implication of you - you have many many points. my implication is for others in previous posts who threatened to not come back to steve's blog because of the low points they received. i did not name names o

crobinator · 2 years ago

n purpose but can assure you it was not in reference to you. apologies for not better phrasing - or rather, not saying it at all.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

crobinator: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

I was on the blog almost all day yesterday, even when daniel ha came on and accepted criticism and comments on the disqus system. You are correct that there were many, many comments about the point system, especially when daniel said it was not broken and that it was entire dependent upon the poster (he did not explain it in detail has you did) but most of those comments were really in jest, as you see some now still are. My point here though is no one, and I emphasize "no one" said they were leaving because they had negative points or felt uncomfortable with the point system. Those who said they were fed up with it left mostly because they could "not" find previous posts they wished to link too and spent endless minutes trying to find parent links. They didn't understand squiggles explanation of the drop down menu from icon, and that there was no notice that new replies were being posted to old parent posts that they would never see in the threaded view. It really is frustrating compared to the fixed time stamp and linearity of the Haloscan system. Yes disqus system has more features, more personalized control, but it lacks simplicity in cross post references that is acute to blog subjects of this intensity.

P.S. And those who left, I know they will be back. They were some of the post active and positive contributors here.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

I've expected all the kvetching, cw, but I've deleted your last two posts attacking crobinator. I know who that person is, they've been reading my blogs for years, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the company that created this commenting system. It's fine to be pissed off, but your attack on another commentator in this case was unwarranted and unfair.

Loz · 2 years ago

you should mark their points down for that!\ ;)

Rhonda · 2 years ago

PLEASE....just ignore the points....as xin says... they are rather sophmoric. We were doing just fine without them.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Yes, do. I've set it so that point standing should have no effect on your posts' visibility. I experimented with them myself at first, and found them uninteresting. For the record, I've never voted anyone down, only up.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

and her implied attack on me was unfair. Steve we are here for the topic of Meredith Kercher and her murder. We been here for well over a month and through two pages of haloscan. For what ever reason, and it certainly was your choice you elected to move the blog comments too this new software. It was quite disconcerting to almost all of us, but we have tried to adapt, but you can tell from the criticism that it has almost become the focus of the blog rather than MK.

So I support that the criticism herewithin since this format started is honest, legitimate and warranted. My case.

Loz · 2 years ago

great article: http://womensissues.about.com/b/2007/12/17/host...

never watched the film myself

meman · 2 years ago

Any body that uses the word "point" in there posts..........from now on..........I will be deducting one....pointless get it....hahah

belle · 2 years ago

hi all, I still have to catch up on all that's been said regarding the case. I'm also trying to get used to this splashy new site. I guess haloscan didn't have the sweeeet pic option so that's one point, wait are points good or bad here? confused... we'll see.

RobertM · 2 years ago

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO belle, don't ask re points. Just set your preferences (options) as Flat Threaded and start at the top and work your way down. You'll find out MORE than you can understand re points. As mean is relentlessly saying "points here are...pointless".

Rhonda · 2 years ago

aawwww belle ..so glad to see you here. Your " Road to the Sea" on the old haloscan was beautiful.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Main Post: General Comment

For "dialogue" & "discussion", I would prefer a total flat format system with BOTH absolute time-stamps and an automatic sequential numbering system. I wouldn't then have to use html link stuff that I can do but which seems a bother to me in the typing process. I could just say "LOZ says in post #nnn that..."

Also, all posts would appear Left Justified, a fine thing in itself, without any of this nesting which could, in the course of replying to a particularly interesting main post, get so replied to that it practically gets Right Justified, scrunched over to the Right as one word per line thing scrolling down the page. I point THAT out because, in effect, ALL of our posts/replies are REPLIES to the Main Theme: Meredith Kercher's death in Perugia by Person(s) Perhpas Unknown.

However, Flat/Threaded is certainly working for me today, and I have made several Replies to what I term "posts above" as my way of catching up with previous comments. I have endeavored to keep them post-specific, such as to translation issues around today's AK judicial interrogation in La Repubblica/The Republic (fem.) Nonetheless, such a post raises general or main post issues.

I guess I'm recommending checking back several hours to see what might be NEWLY reply/nested, scrolling downard (or upward--your preference). That's my angle. One could of course do a resort for all New posts. Whatever.

OK. Having said the above, this is the LAST time I'm going to say anything about this format. Unless, of course, the founders/developers starting making changes to functionality in the eBay Way, which is, just because we can and we want to, so there.

So, any more links to write-ups on Today's Dramatic Court News?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

It's now clear what is going on with the "points". Someone is going through and marking down anything that is critical of the Disqus software, or even making suggestions on how to work around it's current weaknesses and/or unfamiliarity.

Whoever this is: grow up.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

... though I guess there's another possibility. Whenever some folks are corrected, they throw a hissy fit and mark down every post made by the person who pointed out their errors. The more posts you've made, the further they can "mark you down". Since many of mine have been on the topic of the software, I may have drawn the wrong conclusion. I have lost 17 points in the last hour, whilst there has been almost no one posting here. How could that have happened, I wonder?

What a petty, bitchy place these "points" have made it here.

I don't think I'll be back.

Loz · 2 years ago

some folks are just really rude. I don't think you should leave over it, you just shouldn't be so rude & short with people.
ps: i tried to deduct a point from your rude replies, there were no arrows by these. so instead I went to some of your other posts. I think it's fair, as i had just went around the last two days just 'upping' people's points. Why not? It's not like you're in negatives or can't gain them back.
I admit, I may have gone 'overboard'

RobertM · 2 years ago

And just when I "took to heart" the admonition not to pay attention to the points because they were --> pointless!!

Stick around. Remember you are always "ahead of the game" given your Oz location.

soozieuk · 2 years ago

So this is the new blog. Anyone else having probs scrolling and typing? There's a delay before the words appear!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Hi Soozie,

Welcome to this side. My first advice is to make sure you're at this version: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Then, click on my icon (at top left of this post), and read the various things nutted out yesterday on using this thing effectively - or, once at the non-paginated version, select your view and sort preferences and scroll though yesterday's posts.

Loz · 2 years ago

you forgot to delete the bit between / & #. Like you said to me the other day, you've totally screwed up others 'preferences'.
I will scold you, you selfish person!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Erm, no. The post you're replying to contains no such link.

Loz · 2 years ago

first of all you wanted us not to use reply, but to link posts, but to delete the bit between / & #. tested it, it didn't work. when I left it in, it did. you then said I had screwed it up for everyone else, when I was just trying to do it your way.
Now you said we should use the reply function.
I am really confused, what should we do?
Then I posted a reply to xin about cctv, and you went off on one. I apologised, but nothing...
what am i supposed to do?

xin · 2 years ago

meman: you look HOT

meman · 2 years ago

xin...................Thanks....you like that picture huh?......lol...maybe I should put it back then...

RobertM · 2 years ago

Put it bakc, I didn't get a chanc to oogle, er, Google, yeah that's it!

annarbor · 2 years ago

Fran,

Was there a scream at 2 am, or was it arguing at 2 am that was heard?

fran · 2 years ago

A girl actually was passing by at 2 am and heard screams and talk about that to a professor the next day
So, noises were heard, in and around the house, at 1 am

fran · 2 years ago

We must take into consideration the girl who left hurriedly Perugia the day after the murder and whom nobody wants to talk about (it seems that somebody knows more about this crime in Perugia...)..the same article which talks about the night witnesses recalls that thirty years ago a noir was filmed in Perugia which dealt with a murderer killing University for Foreigners students

annarbor · 2 years ago

Fran,

are you aware of any investigation about who this woman is and where she has gone?

fran · 2 years ago

Well, no more leaking about her -- she was a student and she talked with a professor before leaving -- they know who she is -- I hope they have already found her

annarbor · 2 years ago

Everything that we know about Mk and how she felt about AK, her drug use and her strange men friends make it unbelievable that MK would make a date to meet him at her home. She had told her boyfriend from downstairs, when he hesitated to leave for holiday, to go. That she would be waiting there for him when he returned.

If RG was meeting someone at the house, it was AK, not M.

meman · 2 years ago

Fran..............................Early on in the case, the LE released part of a cell phone conversation between Amanda and RS...................Where she supposly said "I can't take this (It) anymore......Was the whole conversation released do you know?.........I find it very hard to believe they just released only that portion of the taped conversation....What would be the purpose of it?...................Without seeing or listening to the whole thing......I am with the idea it was sometype of police tactic..............

annarbor · 2 years ago

Sorry Amanda is an idiot but is she a murderer?

I don't know whether or not she is a/the murderer, but I'm guessing that if she'd stayed at home in Seattle, MK would be alive. At the very least I think her lifestyle started the chain of events that led to MK's murder....To paraphrase RS , " If MK was murdered, it is above all the fault of AK..".

seattleite · 2 years ago

I understand your sentiment and if the court decides she has culpability and spends time in prison no one here except maybe her family and friends will shed a tear.

xin · 2 years ago

amanda is the dead center connection linking all aspects of this crime. and she is an idiot.

((this board has now eaten one of my posts, and i can't remember the content, because I am so distracted by the arcane workings of this place...NOT HASH. But the medium is the massage, and the topic here is now ABOUT DIS.cuss which i find very irritating and i know i am a force in it, and i am sorry. I think I'll go read jung until there is evidence that belle, soozie, and others have wandered the desert to wherever the hell we now find ourselves PLUS DANIEL HA if you are here--we need a little lightbulb when there are new posts. see haloscan ;) ))

RobertM · 2 years ago

Jump right in with Memories, Dreams and Reflections-still out in pb and even still on library shelves. Also, from the early 1990s, there's a book on the Speilrein woman & Freud/Jung as she got analyzsed by both! (dead center present at the creation of both analytical and depth psychology). I'm now reading Hollis, Why Good People Do Bad Things, which is really a primer on where Jung's psychology is now, rather than a more scientific study along Robert Hare's lines; i.e. some of my patients did this as compared to 37% of all male prison inmates can be classified as sub-acute personality disorders... Still, for what I need to know now, a good, clear book.

In Jung/Hollis' terms, one dynamic that was going on was that AMANDA was letting her animus Shadow issues flourish, whereas RAFE was letting his anima Shadow issues flourish in direct response to Amanda. The visual Jung always favored to express this was the yin-yang circle. But JUNG's POINT would be that as both were UNBALANCED people (AK=High Animus/Low Anina & Rafe vice versa), TOGETHER THEY COMPLETED EACH OTHER, which is why it felt so good for both to be together so much on the days after the murder & why Jung would not be surprised by the lingerie shopping on Saturday.

The other thing I like about Jung/Hollis is that the position is that your Shadow issues will come & get you if you are not paying attention, but despite their unconscious nature, they are part of you and you are responsible for otucomes those issues cause. No Free Pass. (<--- which is the short-short-hand answer to the book's title question.)

Loz · 2 years ago

do you know what's weird about AKs lawyers though? They are releasing chunks of her diary, in which she's no longer under duress, but still can't remember details...

As an excuse for her not speaking at this latest hearing?

It's all rather short-term though?

xin · 2 years ago

Better webcam visit to Perugia:
http://tinyurl.com/2zn3q5

click to cam, city stills
site sponsored by city of Perugia, sister city to Seattle (rue the day)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

geeessssh I was hoping for a live web cam of the prison.

xin · 2 years ago

still looking for prison webcam
also it would be fun to find one at le chic

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hey to our eyes and ears in Perugia. Isn't that damian? Does anyone know if Le Chic has reopened since PL was released? I hope he has. Something needs to return to normal in that horrified town.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Why rue the day Xin? You mean for Seattle? It looks like at this point that the murderer is an Italian unless you disbelieve all the reported DNA evidence.

Perugia/Seattle connection is well known here and has led to very strong cultural and even business associations between the cities. In fact my favorite coffee (and widely bought and liked here) was created by a man from Perugia, who came to Seattle and founded Torrefazione coffee and cafes. He sold the business after it became very beloved and now resides in Perugia.

People will not argue much about sports, finance or weather but get them started about the best coffee and the claws come out. I am drinking Torrefazione Sardegna now.

He sold the company to "guess who" a few years ago but has opened a new venture Cafe Umbria in Portland to much fanfare.

Sorry Amanda is an idiot but is she a murderer?

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

xin: check your email at gmail again. Thanks

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

xin: thanks for the weather cam in Perugia. I see it is 20 degrees F as before, except before it seemed to be rising by a degree everywhere else over that 20 hours. But the then I checked Loz temp in UK and it was going down, then back up. Weird. Anyway AK better wear her warmers tomorrow morning on her way to court. You may be right!!!! Even the temp in Chicago is going up a bit after our big storm.

meman · 2 years ago

RobertM..............just ignore the points......their pointless

meman · 2 years ago

whooo thanks seattlelite........................lol

xin · 2 years ago

Ah. Perugia.
Let's visit the big fountain
(hard to find webcams that work. early days of tech!)

http://viaggi.globopix.net/webcam/webcam-perugi...

and to plan our visit:
http://www.perugiaonline.com/meteopgus.html

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

OMG it is going to be cold in RS's cell tonight.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Pinecone and seattleite,

what do you make of the call that AK placed to RG just after MK's body was discovered?

seattleite · 2 years ago

Loz: CCTV

Eager to see any and all "real" CCTV but I will not be surprised to not find Rudy leaving. I think he went down the hill and into the trees and past a direct line to his house and back up into populated area (dropping the phones he decided he didn't really want or need in the garden) and back towards his house coming NOT from the direction of the crime. Google map or Windows live thingy map will show you what I mean.

I think there was a Kermit map on the second thread on Haloscan really good and accurate map from sources.
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?71a4...

Loz · 2 years ago

I just know that when I've been off my face, and I remember it, I can't say my name properly. Probably couldn't handle a key.

exactly how out of their heads were they?

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor wrote: Rudy has said that he barely knows Amanda.

Read the first part of my post. I don't even think the call took place( yet.) I was speculating based on a question that was asked by Loz.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Actually if you look back, the question about the phonecal was posed by me.

why so testy, seattleite?

seattleite · 2 years ago

Loz: wrote: Amazing that he rang her just after the police discovered the body.

Imaginary smiley face also...

You kiddin...college kids in their myspacey, facebooky, addressbooky, put me in your cellphone world. When are their phones not ringing!

Loz · 2 years ago

when they turn them off between 9&11?

seattleite · 2 years ago

Don't know that they did or that they didn't turn them off for a simple banal reason. Forgive me but I have no faith in governmental assertions without knowing what's really in the documents. I also don't do well reading the facts through the tea leaves of a newspaper reporters idea of how to sell papers.

Loz · 2 years ago

so, how do you keep yourself informed? maybe you should tell me, so i can be better informed in the future?

xin · 2 years ago

RIGHT ON Daniel.
You get ten points!

skim back through this thread and you'll pick uyp all kinds of good stuff.
WOW: great to see you!

xin · 2 years ago

(daniel: pls check your watch for time ;) )

daniel ha is here. he is one of the founders of this software.
shall we welcome daniel.
HELLO DANIEL

Loz · 2 years ago

===

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

2) some would like to see a fixed time stamp without the n seconds, n2 minutes, n3 hours, yesterday n:nn PM. In other words make it 12.16.07 13:00:00 or 01:00:18 PM and fix it to the post permanently, not rolling on a refresh or reload.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

3) When using the threaded view, replies are sorted under a given parent level as newest first and oldest last. Think it would be more helpful either to have a option of just always post the oldest reply first. Often a poster will not only reply to the parent post but include previous reply comment subject[s] in their reply. Make any sense?

Thanks a million for your listening.

Oh one last thing. The points seem to be going crazy on many & most posts. Either there is a program error on refreshing or something or we have some trolls spending all their time deducting points. I am almost voted off here already having -23 to date. *tears*.

Also are not the points a bit sophomoric, no insult intended. At least the owner should have the option to turn them off.

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

Hi guys,

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I've been watching this thread (for the conversation, really) and just noticed the influx of bug reports. I'd like to clarify a few things that hopefully will be helpful for understanding how the Disqus comment system works.

Many of you are viewing the thread from the forum view. The absolute/relative time setting is only applicable for the blog view.

The settings that many have been talking about are available, and they are controlled by the site-owner. For example, this is the ability to block anonymous postings.

This also means that the flat vs. threaded nature of the comments can be controlled by the site-owner in the settings.

The points are purely determined by others rating your comments (with the arrows). The software makes no judgment and does not alter the points. If you have a -15 reputation, this means that someone else has down-voted your posts 16 times.

I'll be addressing more of your questions as I see them. Please don't hesitate to contact us at help@disqus.com and we'll respond as fast and best as we can.

Thank you guys,

Daniel

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

well i guess i certainly remain on somebody's hate list *lmao*

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

So why not make the absolute relative time available in the forum view? What is the difference. Others had problems with the blog view showing time stamps and other buttons not showing. I think you should look into this with your systems people. We are trying to assist and realize you are in Beta2.

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

The timestamp option was just released and we are still rolling it out to the rest of the system.

With timestamps, there is a default setting (set by the site-owner) but it can be overridden with your personal settings.

It is true we are in beta status. We'll be working as fast as we can to address the issues that crop up. We appreciate the help.

annarbor · 2 years ago

there is much discussion here about hard evidence vs circumstantial evidence as it is used to assign guilt or innocence. Yet when i was scrolling through some of the past news reports just now, it struck me that when deciding to keep AK in prison after her hearing, the court cited that AK was "self assured and cunning, capable of violence" and rather broadly stated that there are "serious indications of guilt". I am unaware of any psychiatric assesment of AK or RS, so i assume that these assesments were made by the judge?

Does anyone know whether the Italian courts weigh circumstantial evidence as well as subjective assesments as heavily as hard, forensic evidence.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... annarbor "I am unaware of any psychiatric assesment of AK or RS"

In RS released prison diary, he documents that he is talking to a psychiatrist. :)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

annarbor,
The judge obviously weighed circumstantial evidence which most likely should be considered. The judge also bought into the investigating prosecutor's theory that a sex "game" that got out of control led to murder (as say opposed to a counter POV that maybe a sex crime got out of control and led to murder). Whatever? So yes the judge made the assessments.

Does anyone know whether the Italian courts weigh circumstantial evidence as well as subjective assesments as heavily as hard, forensic evidence?

I second your question without hesitation.

DLW · 2 years ago

Is there any way to more of the space on the page? I'd say 40% of the page width isn't used on my screen.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Thanks, Loa. I had not seen that...I wonder then if these assesments as stated by the Italian court when announcing the decision to keep AK and RS in jail, are official statements from a psychiatric review?

Loz · 2 years ago

If they were not, I presume that AK and/or RS lawyers & families would have vocalised this in the press?

xin · 2 years ago

CW: excellent point.
This is not *disability friendly*
as the WebTV guys used to say
*impolite*

erhw · 2 years ago

Test...(sorry Steve this new format even in 'flat' is NOT easy to figure out- why after I've taken the trouble to register with whatever this thing is (which I much prefer not to do) am I still being given only the option of posting 'anonymously'?)

Anon68283 · 2 years ago

Loz/ #comment-37196

but still, unless of semen, (saliva??), hairs & fngernail scraping. You can not lift foreign DNA from a persons 'skin'?

Actually, that is quite possible... the sources of DNA for forensic analysis commonly include:
blood, dandruff, ear wax, hair, mucus, saliva, semen, skin, sweat, urine, vaginal or rectal cells... and various other human tissues, not otherwise specified --- the collection issues with these as evidence regard what surfaces you find them on and can cleanly extract these sources from for testing.

However, let's be clear: that's not the question I was responding to or the subject I've addressed here. The reported claim in this case, and it was made long ago now, is that AK's fingerprints (or marks? a translation issue here?) were identified on Meredith Kercher; specifically, on her face.

My points don't go to the credibility of such claims, other than to report that it is not de facto, an outrightly fantastic claim: it is indeed possible to lift fingerprints off of someone's skin. I further provided some support for the suggestion that for some time now, competent investigators have been quite aware of this, and have been keen to do so.

And then, there are more questions, of course.

Pincone stated:

As I recall, they claimed finger marks were visible and they opined that those marks were the same "size" as AK's. However, fingerprints would be strong evidence against whoever left them.

If that claim is true, and the reference is to marks vs. prints (rather than a translation problem from the Italian) then the literature indicates that their forensic team should have followed-up and pursued lifting prints from those marks.

See coyotewaits's recent post
http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
for a good listing of loose ends regarding forensic claims made in this case. And there are many others still dangling that have been pointed out and discussed in previous threads (in the old Haloscan threads for comments to this blog in particular).

Anon68283

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... Anon68283 "but still, unless of semen, (saliva??), hairs & fngernail scraping. You can not lift foreign DNA from a persons 'skin'? Actually, that is quite possible... the sources of DNA for forensic analysis commonly include: blood, dandruff, ear wax, hair, mucus, saliva, semen, skin, sweat, urine, vaginal or rectal cells... and various other human tissues, not otherwise specified --- the collection issues with these as evidence regard what surfaces you find them on and can cleanly extract these sources from for testing."

thanks :) so I guess pinecone may be right about no trace of AK found on MKs body..

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Hmmm. Not convinced. There are plenty of on-topic posts also rated zero. I suspect a software update error.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm currently with Pinecone on this case. All the truly believable evidence that has so far emerged points at Rudy G., and no one else. I am not persuaded by this magical clean-up where AK and RS manage miraculously to remove their DNA and prints but leave Rudy's. How?

Daniel Ha · 2 years ago

The points are user rated. Our software does not make adjustments to the points other than record the ratings that your peers make.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Exactly my points in more detail at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
earlier this morning.

What say you, Rhonda on Pinecone's theory?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Hmmm. Something has happened to all the "points" in the last hour or so...

Rhonda · 2 years ago

I don't like the point thingy....it reminds me of CW's medal presentation. This is not a compitition ...for me at least.

Steve says:"And you know what? I like the point system for one reason -- it's a good way to let a-holes know they're being a-holes without actually engaging them (which is often exactly what they want)."

To me using the point system is engaging them also...ignoring would be and is more effective.
Most a** holes know they're being a**holes without giving or taking points from them.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Essentially agreed. Though I've seen the point (rating) system used effectively at other sites (e.g. YouTube), where you eventually simply don't see posts that the majority have deemed "bad", unless you choose to. Probably not needed here though. No proper sentences there :)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I think Steve or a moderator is setting all posts points not on topic, i.e., the murder of Meredith Kercher, to 0. A quick scroll showed all and any posts on the disqus system and how to use it set to zero. Makes sense. Maybe it's time we get back on topic. There is enough posts here now, that a quick link post for anyone asking questions should give them all they need to know.

RobertM · 2 years ago

And its not just points. While my Profile setting is resolutely set at Absolute, the time function on disqus shows Relative all the time now. And, yes, I'm in the Flat Thread format on disques, and not at the pagination format. Worthless.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

As has been pointed out earlier, times remain relative when they are within the last hour (in fact, it seems to be based on the actual change of hour, rather than an elapsed 60 minutes). Scroll down, and you will see that older posts have absolute times.

PS. The 60 minutes thing seems to have changed, as does the embedding of sort and view preferences in the Permalink URL. I think we are being watched :)

RobertM · 2 years ago

Yes, thanks, I see that now. BUT--> its a crap decision also by the programmers. Again, not thnking as end users. Its "cutsey", a stylistic viewpoint, a mix of Relative and Absolute.. If you have a setting called "Absolute", WHAT YOU SET SHOULD BE WHAT YOU SEE.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Couldn't agree more.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Good Sunday AM, Eastern Standard Time! Good to see most of you are in bed, including wonder woman xin (and I was up to a ridiculous time myself).

This next is for General Users not pros like Squiggle.

(1) Use the DISQUS.com address.
(2) Bookmark it as one of your favorites
(3) Open it up
(4) Log in
(4a) If you haven't created a DISQUS account do so
(4b) then log in
(5) You then see True Crime Talk with Steve's mug, a white column with text on a light blue background.
(6) Look UP to the top right of your screen
(7) you'll see Dashboard/Profile
(8) Left click on Profile
(9) Edit your profile.
(9a) this will include (1) uploading your pic, (2) where you put your website address, (3) where from etc. And:
(10) the Time Stamp is toward the bottom. <--This is where YOU change the time stamp to Absolute from Relative ( thats the "2 hours ago" thingy)
(11) Make changes, hit exit.
(12) come back here. I had to use the back button.

So now I'm logging out so I can log back in to see if the Profile changes have worked.

Hey! It turns out Refresh works just fine and the changes have been accepted. I know see the "correct" time ofr AndyT's post as Today 07:26 AM with 2 points. Alright!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

RobertM: "Good Sunday AM"

It's already Monday where I am :)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hi Robert,
I gave Andy his 2nd point for challenging the defense of Pinecone and Co. to present their defense of AK. I was just the first pseudo lawyer to go at it and a poor one at that. Can't wait for Pinecone to get back. But gotta go shovel the snow for the next few hours now.

Loz · 2 years ago

coyotewaits - I think if we all use 'Flat' format, and quote in our reply. It will be just like the old one.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... or
replying to Loz —44 minutes ago with 1 point
"coyotewaits - I think if we all use 'Flat' format, and quote in our reply. It will be just like the old one."

I am going to continue to use the Permalink (right click copy, that Squiggle gave us) URL link when I reply, rather than quoting all or a portion of post, just to keep the size of the reply post manageable. Although your method does make it easier I think for posters to transition to this software. Of course using this procedure does require everyone to use the http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_ version of the blog and not the embedded version in Steve's blog as Squiggle pointed out.

If most others start following your method, I will certainly fall in line.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
test

it works if you right click> copy shortcut (or whatever)> and don't delete the bit between last / and #.
for me on windows/msn everything.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Loz: "it works if you right click> copy shortcut (or whatever)> and don't delete the bit between last / and #.".

Yes, the link 'works', but it screws up the viewing preferences off anyone who clicks on it, since it gives them your settings. Your link includes 's=newest&v=flat', which means that it will change the preferences of anyone who clicks on it to Sort = newest and View = Flat. You won't notice a problem if you click on it, as they are already your settings. Others, however, will have a problem.

Loz · 2 years ago

ah ok. soz

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hi Loz, good morning where ever you are. Hope you are feeling better. Yes I fell in line with the others and your test works. :-)

Loz · 2 years ago

Hiya, good morning!
it's 6:35pm here :)

all this computer stuff is beyond me...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

It does help to delete the ?s=newest&v=flat between the last / and the # Loz, because that is URL link code to tell the readers browser to reset their view (flat or threaded) when they click on the link. It is not critical but sort of a courtesy to edit it. But it makes it awkward to edit every link. Hopefully the programmers will fix that during this beta. As Squiggle pointed out, it shouldn't even be there.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Ok, do not need to use the permalink anymore. That's good, great!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Indeed... but it can be much better than the old one. So long as you use the 'reply' link below the post you're replying to, rather than starting a new thread, your suggested method will not disadvantage anyone. If you create a new thread each time, however, it will break the (useful) functionality that enables the 'Threaded' view, and creates the 'Parent' link that can be used in the 'Flat' view.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hi Squiggle: Would you recommend the URL link or the quote as we did in haloscan. The url link works well if the reader opens it in a new tab, then closes the tab and doesn't start to use it for continued reading or replying
or
copy and paste the original post as a quote, where the reader doesn't have to do anything, just read and chose whether to reply or not?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

I would recommend:

- always use the 'reply' link below a post when replying to it. This creates the connection that enables the threaded view to work and the 'Parent' link in the poster-icon menu to work. It does not disadvantage readers using the flat view.
- use a URL link when cross-referencing a post other than the immediate parent.
- quote some text to give context whenever you feel it might help.

The challenge is to make users aware of the options available from the menu available by hovering over the poster-icon, even when using the flat view. The icon of the poster seems a very, very odd place to hide this important menu.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

great icon!!! love it. Mine is a photo of one of my two tattoos. It is suppose to represent my DNA. The fierce sort of head is my amygdala genes while the rest is my orbital frontal cortex genes trying to manage the amygdala ones. *lots of luck*

Anon68283 · 2 years ago

Lifting prints from skin:
Technology available since 1995, see:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5395445-fullt...

and recent interest in improvements, see:
http://www.forensicmag.com/articles.asp?pid=98

Loz · 2 years ago

"Anon68283 —9 minutes ago with 3 points
Lifting prints from skin:
Technology available since 1995, see:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5395445-fullt...

and recent interest in improvements, see:
http://www.forensicmag.com/articles.asp?pid=98"


They HAVE lifted er prints/imprints off MKs face I think.
Probably from holding her down or slapping her?

And that's FINGERPRINTS, not DNA as in skin cells.

But thanks, a well interesting read :)

I wil link posts from now on

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

The Use of Ardrox® and Fingerprint Powder to Recover Latent Fingerprints from Pig Skin
By: Barbara Heflin, Mari Palazzolo, Marie Tengren-Knight, Dennis Walsh, Issue: June/July, 2006

The enhancement of latent fingerprints from human skin continues to be a problem for forensic laboratories

Well it appears that as of a year and half ago lifting fingerprints from "human" skin continues to be very difficult. Criminal attorneys so noting for defense their forensic experts to testify.

Anon68283 · 2 years ago

On fingerprints

Anon68283

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

with respect to the question: "is [it] possible to leave a fingerprint on another persons skin[?]"

Apologies for being too cryptic in the initial post. The relevant point is that to forensic specialists it is well known that "latent fingerprints [are] recoverable for up to a few days, and in some instances up to two months on human skin," per this recent article at forensicmag.com. Patents have been issued on techniques for doing so in the US and other countries over a decade ago.

It's also worth noting that the 2006 article reaches some conclusions and offers a bibliography. The "problem" this article addresses in particular is extending the time forensic labs have to recover prints from skin, from days or weeks, to several months; reporting on its findings for techniques that hold promise for doing so 3 months out --- but we know that such extensive time frames for recovering prints is really not the problem, or particularly relevant, in the Meredith Kercher case.

William C. Sampson, formerly of the Miami-Dade Police Department, developed techniques for recovering latent prints from human skin years ago, in working on serial killer cases. He went on to further popularize the interest in and the value of doing so in the 1990s, and onwards, through the International Association for Identification (IAI), amongst other LEA venues in the field. Prior to 1978, such techniques were highly sought after by investigators, but had only been successful under experimental conditions. It's claimed in the industry press that advancements have resulted in the identification and conviction of at least 39 perpetrators and that refined techniques can yield a near 100% success rate, as opposed to the one in 15,000,000 in getting good prints previously. The issues now concern not if it's possible, but rather the conditions for doing so, such as the amount of "time" that has elapsed before the forensic techniques are applied, preservation of the prints on the skin, etc. Since the late-1990s techniques for lifting prints from human skin were entered into various LEA procedures manuals, and the pursuit of better techniques remains active.


State of Florida v. Stephen William Beattie (1978)
The first case on record where a latent print was developed on a homicide victim's skin, identified to a suspect, and introduced as evidence in court.
http://www.fprints.nwlean.net/s2.htm

See also:
Detecting and Preserving Latent Fingerprints on Skin
by Lt. Robert J. Garrett, CSCSA, FFS,
Supervisor, ID/Technical Services Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office, New Jersey
In The Criminalist, Summer 2001
http://njiai.org/Criminalist901.PDF

Now, aside from this (and the issuance of patents... ) there are many other accessible sources that could also be cited... but it suffices to say that not only is it possible, but that the technology is available and known to fingerprint/forensics specialists. This only answers that question (posed in the threads here earlier).

There are other questions, of course, for example, on the issue of detectability of prints, are there other factors or clues that would lead a forensics team to make the attempts to recover latent prints from the victim's skin?


Did the police in this case attempt to use any of these techniques? Did they recover usable prints? Did they then make a match? Some have claimed that yes, they did so. Moreover, the claims suggest that the prints at issue, to begin with, were readily detectable, i.e., they were not so latent.

Another consequence you could draw relevant to some other suppositions and questions aired in these threads: if the police did lift prints, then at least one perp in this case was not using gloves, at least not in the course of the assault. (But maybe gloves came into it later? direct contact with so much bleach over time can get pretty nasty.)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

This software is not necessarily any more intuitive than haloscan, in fact it's less, but its features are really powerful once you get familiar with it. I hope Squiggle will post some detailed instructions for posting "reply to links" and other help/tips and then we can refer all posters to his posts.

Again thanks for your expertise and exploration, Squiggle.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

testing link for myself, editing as Squiggles suggested

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

for some reason my settings are now getting changed from newest to oldest. Dang!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

OK cw, here are the instructions

HOW TO LINK EXPLICITLY TO ANOTHER POST


1. Hover over the user icon beside the post you wish to link to. You will get a little menu that includes the item "Permalink".
2. Right-click on the Permalink item to bring up a menu. This will let you select "Copy Link Location" (or similar, depending on which browser you use).
3. Paste the link into the post you are creating.
4. Important: Edit out the part of the link between the final "/" and the "#". This will look something like "?s=oldest&v=threaded". If you don't do this, the link will cause the page to be regenerated with your sort and view preferences, not the other users'.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

testing....... Hmmm, your HTML code didn't work. What is LI and OL ? just curious?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Yep. They're edited out now. <OL> starts an "Ordered List" (with numbers automatically generated. <LI>...</LI> delimits a "List Item".

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Thanks Squiggle: Instructions are very clear. I hope posters do not get frustrated with editing out the
"?s=oldest&v=threaded" view posts configuration settings. If you use a new tab to view that link, it should not matter to the new viewer. But not everyone may be using the latest or greatest browser. And I can understand anyone who has what is stable for themselves from having to upgrade to the latest and greatest.
Curious. Is this something that the software provider Disqus could eliminate from their link generator? Could it be a bug or oversight in their programming, worth updating them on their own technical boards?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Yeah, it's a very poor choice by the developers. There's no need at all to embed those parameters in such links. Links are by definition mostly used by others, so it's dumb to include a user's preferences in a link intended for use by others. This stuff would be much better handled by using a cookie.

xin · 2 years ago

HI. You can always tell a start-up product, you have to knowsomeone to work it properly. This style of comments board launched in October. I will stop there, but we are in a beta test...so GUYS, WE NEED A GROWN UP date and time stamp. AT THE VERY LEAST. ANd your crack copyrwriter needs to think of way to let posters know which is the RIGHT page. Good God; the VERY EARLY days of technology. As Robt M says, "Save Everything."

Now, going back to the plastic, black laundry bag containing bloody clothes, no underwear of AKs, and PERHAPS shoes/trainers. After being thoroughly abused by a certain peevish poster, I undertook a small bit of checking around on what wrecks DNA. Not only is it possible (being v
thorough and anal) to eliminiate usable DNA with bleach, BUT a plastic bag, with damp contents, can form a little terarium sort of ecosystem that ALSO wrecks DNA. SO this may be a take-away for our crime compendium for a innocent and fully explanable way to not have DNA on the bottom of a tennie. Course, traipsing through blood and then traipsing through bleach with the mocio-mopsy is another, perhaps more suspicious way to erase a little history. I know Amanda wasn't that smart, but, still, an interesting transfer mix of whatever she carried.

Also the makeup bag missing is interesting. Chicks, tarts, thievettes LOVE to steal makeup shit. In LA that's how we'd figure out if a guy or gal was the breaker-inner during the days of pre-glam housing in Venice and Santa Monica. The cosmetics were taken by a "lady" or a tranny we have not yet met, but why not?

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Using absolute time, it does remain in the hours, minutes, seconds ago format, and the yesterday at 5:10 pm format, but if you scan back past that you will start to see 12/13/2007 10:07 PM e.g. However, I think this presents another delimna. If Robert M has his time set to PST, Pinecone to GMT and me to EST, then we will be referring to different times of others post when we copy the time stamp to a post we wish to reply to. I think?

Reply to Pinecone —8 minutes ago with 1 point
What does the time stamp say on this post in your browser Pinecone.
It's your post that included "Try scrolling down to a post from 1 hour ago. On my machine it's indicating the actural time."

Squiggle · 2 years ago

That's correct. The timestamp will be shown in the timezone that each person has selected. It's a shame that there's no easy way to link to an individual post. Of course, the intention is that users use the "reply" link beneath a post, so that posts are linked automatically by the software.... so long as one is using the "Threaded" view. The majority here, however, seems to prefer the "Flat" view.

There is a solution, but it's really, really ugly: if you view the source of the page, you can see the internal anchors for the posts. For example, for the coyotewaits post to which I am replying, it's <a href="#comment-36737" class="header-time" onclick="highlightPost(36737)"> It's the href part that is crucial. It means that I can create a link to that post by appending the anchor name to the page URL, like so: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Actually, I've just discovered an easier way to get the link to a particular post. (In Firefox) If you hover over the user icon beside a post, you get a little menu from which you can select "Permalink". Selecting this will take you to the address of the post. You can then copy it from the address bar of your browser. You can also can also right-click on the Permalink item to bring up a menu that will let you select to copy the link location, without going to another page or location in a page. This is probably the best solution. No need to synchonize time zones if we do that.

NB. I would be very surprised if this did not work in other popular browsers too.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Squiggle —Yesterday 11:55 PM with 1 point

Ahh, there is another little quirk, though not important. Replies. No points arrows to be used.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

did I do the perma link correctly? cw

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Yep! Though there is a gotcha: the link includes parameters that indicate your viewing preferences. Your permalink, for example was:

hxxp://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_the_murder_of_meredith_kercher/?s=oldest&v=threaded#comment-36754

(sub http for hxxp, I'm just supressing the auto-formatting).

Note the "?s=oldest&v=threaded". Edit them out, and you get a link that will leave others' default preferences alone:

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Now it seems to get complicated again. Does that mean if I use that permalink link that it will change the clicker/user on that link setting to display the actual post.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Squiggle —1 minute ago with 1 point

Would the idea that we all agree to a universal time stamp be doable. Might be at least one thing we could all agree on (lmao). How about GMT = 0:00

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Pinecone —Yesterday 11:14 PM with 1 point

I'm see that we have actual time stamps for some of the posts nowl That'll make it easier to refer to previous posts. Thanks to whoever changed it.


You reset it by refreshing your browser.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

New post to Squiggle: Great to have your expertise, see Squiggles post here posters:

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Suggest you make a post of clear instructions how a poster can reference a post she/he is replying to, using the permalink, right click Copy Link Location, then paste.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

In regards to the posts about the washing machine and clothes in it, wouldn't it stand to reason that LE analyzed the clothes for microscopic indications of blood, or even if the clothes were washed with a heavy quantity of bleach (i.e., trying to erase evidence of blood, fingerprints, etc.)? I know when I do my clothes wash I seldom use bleach at all unless the clothes are really soiled from unusual dirty work. Maybe the regular washing custom is different in Italy. Also I never use bleach to wash dishes or kitchen utensils, in or out of a dishwasher. What is the custom in Italy?

I think Robert's post about "was the wash cycling when PP entered the house and supposed heard such?" is quite important for the very reason he states. If just wet clothes, MK could have done the wash herself the night before. If actually still spinning, then someone else set the washer.

And I still cannot help but agree with many here and think that the two new "lovebirds", RS & AK, were involved and not just in a "bleach fest". It boggles my mind, but their statements as the investigating prosecutor has stated more than once to the judge in the detention hearings, contain obvious and incriminating inconsistencies. Not the least from the moment the PP arrived and following the discovery of MK when the ILE arrived and from the very start found RS and AK's statements inconsistent. All respects still due to Pinecone's theory.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor:

This is not meant to be mean or snarky or anything...but you would think they had found a cut on Amanda's hand, or Amanda's DNA on Meredith, or that Amanda had run away to another country...I am open to Amanda involvement unintentionally and through stupidity to making that house an unsafe environment but there is zip evidence that she participated in the murder.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor:

Not sure she "lied". I would have said anything the other day after 5 hours of chop on a cross-country flight if the pilot had said "I'll find some calm air if you just say "Yes!"

If she is guilty I don't care if she rots in an Italian prison becoming the new singing nun or if all the American students are expelled and have to learn Italian through Rosetta Stone at a junior college...but I do mind if she is NOT legally culpable because of the circumstances and facts of the case.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Pinecone,

Like seattleite, this is not meant as a mean or snarky comment...perhaps you are right. I don't claim to know the answer. But what about the blood evidence with DNA from an unidentified man and woman? What about the witness from across the street that saw more than one person fleeing the scene? Or the evidence of two knives inflicting wounds? I do not believe that Rudy is an innocent bystander. He is no doubt guilty of rape and sexual assault. Bur I am not convinced he is the murderer or that he acted alone.

annarbor · 2 years ago

When PL was in prison, despite the extremely cruel treatment he received at the hands of the guards who assumed he was guilty. hjs story remained the same. Despite 5 hours of chop, he didn't change his story to buy some calm . That was because he told the truth and didn't consider any other options.

I believe that if AK was telling the truth, her story woud not have changed, and she would not be making the claim that her memory is all in a fog....

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Actually PL had in his story some inconsistencies he was unable to explain to the judge. His club's register receipt dating, his cell phone use and message deletes, his changing cell phones, etc. After that initial hearing on 09 Nov to detain him in prison, he said nothing in future hearings. He let his lawyers do the talking which is a smart move. But obviously there became enough validation of his alibi that he was released. Therefore, I think it is safe to say he at least had no direct role in the assault/murder of MK or at the post crime scene.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor:

Patrick is older, wiser and has survived as a "foreigner" in a tough business where I am told there are considerable odds against him. He is a survivor if you will. She is a loopy, screwed up kid with a drug problem in a foreign country with a less than perfect grasp of the language who thinks she is smarter than she is confronted with the horror of this murder and unless you demonize her, she is certainly in shock and looking for the correct answer to the next SAT question.

No comparison.

RobertM · 2 years ago

"the next SAT question" -- Superb!! And a good call. Patrick only told them just enough of what was true so that they couldn't "trip" him. And Perugia LE is clearly comfortable in using the dark room, naked light bulb, and bad cop/bad cop techniques of the pre-Miranda Warning centuries in America. And they must have gone to town on Amanda. I don't think she slept. The most recent false confession Innocent case, a New Yorker 17 years in for murder/rape at 17, was told after 2 days of continuing interviews without a lawyer present that if he confessed he could go home & see his mother. Yeah, right. With DNA, New York found out they'd been holding the real rapist/killer for OVER A DECADE. At the release hearing, the dead woman's mother made a point of attending so as to say to him how sorry she was. His lawsuit against NY will be for a huge amount.

Note that Rafe alludes to long & bothersome interrogations but he also, being Italian, stayed to the one story, just after the first revision. He "knew" what to expect. Your quite right, whether involved or not, Amanda was a fish out of water with these cops.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

This would certainly be my take on the so called second statement made by AK to police implicating PL. Anyone who has never been interrogated in a felony case or has not followed the endless number of cases of false confessions made because of police endlessly for hours psychologically beating a suspect to a pulp. Let alone actually physically beating suspects into confession as in Chicago, where the City just these days are paying out $millions in settlements to tens of persons jailed for the last fifteen years for being physically tortured into making confessions. Believe me or not, it happens far more often than you would want to even contemplate. Also just this week is the Fox case in upscale suburban Chicago where the father (Fox case) was forced into confessing to his own three year old daughters rape and murder and the police then asked the FBI to quit processing the girls DNA rape kit since they had a confession. Defense attorneys got the rape kit re-processed, DNA clearly showed it wasn't the father and the police and county are now in trial in a civil case for false imprisonment, civil right violations and suppression of exonerating evidence. In the meantime Mr. Fox spent seven months in jail without bond.

Hey! It's in the nature of policemen and those attracted to police work. Besides if you have never worked in LE then you are not familiar with the performance objectives placed on detectives and agents to "make cases" (meaning get indictments).

annarbor · 2 years ago

Pinecone,

As I said to seattleite, I don't know for certain that AK was actively involved. I do believe that her behavior has earned her the skepticism of the investigators.

I mentioned the unidentified DNA as an indication that Rudy was not there alone and did not commit the murder alone, which I believe is your theory, Pinecone.

I have read that more than one knife was used, but I know that you dispute much of what is in print. I understand that, but then you must live by those same guidelines--We don't know that there was truly hair in MK's hand, or that it belonged to Rudy....

annarbor · 2 years ago

I'm headed to sleep.

Pinecone and seattleite, I may be completely wrong--I am not trying to win a competirion. While I believe that Rudy played a nasty role in this, I don't believe he acted alone. Even if you discount half of the evidence pointing toward the involvement of others, there is still enough evidence to make me believe that others were there and actively participated....But I admit that this is my opinion, and I wont be surprised if I am completely wrong.

As rhe parent of a 20 yr old daughter who studies Latin and Italian, and is considering her year abroad, I wonder how the Kerchers can even take a breath in the face of their loss, much less make it through a day..

Goodnight

seattleite · 2 years ago

Don't need no stinking points. I was hoping my screed against "trial by newspaper" in Italy a la the Skype would generate some discussion.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor:

Shouldn't there be AK DNA on MK if AK was forcibly restraining her in the neck and head area?

Loz · 2 years ago

seattleite:
"Shouldn't there be AK DNA on MK if AK was forcibly restraining her in the neck and head area?"
great point, unless of gloves. Maybe there was? I don't know how easy or possible it is to lift DNA of blood-soaked skin, that itself has sloughing dead skin cells?
They never do it on crime shows. It's hairs left on the body, scrapings underfingernails, and stuff.
Like I believe, if not long aprehended after a murder, any suspects fingernails should be luminoled or something.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

I couldn't agree more. There should certainly be some AK's DNA or prints somewhere on MK or in MK's room if she was in there at the time of assault. I still do not think there was a cleanup of the crime room. Too messy to even contemplate. The only possibility to me if AK & RS were directly involved was it was well premeditated and they both wore latex or surgical gloves. Her DNA on the handle of a knife that came from RS house could have come at anytime in the two weeks she stayed there.

seattleite · 2 years ago

RobertM: Very interesting ...(why is everything coming out as a tv or movie quote). And on the other hand, courts are largely political institutions and the finding of the truth is often second to public policy. Public policy can also engender the worst of human nature. How does this trial by newspaper not effect the court's decision?

Based on the virtual neck-tie party conducted in this case they are all ready done.

RobertM · 2 years ago

RePOST from Reply to seattleite: I can't do that on my lap-top. Its not presenting me with the flat format key, just oldest, newest, hottest (that you babe?) etc. And also, I don't have the edit function. So I can see your post of "in the notes" as I've got the setting to Oldest as Thread, but you won't see it. So I'm reposting this as a regular post.

Well Pinecone, if we just keep on keeping on, we'll just send out mind-numbing brainwaves and so mask the Reply to Reply function. Find by me. Ooooooooommmmmmm.

RobertM · 2 years ago

fran wrote the following just previous: RHG could be lying but if he is lying he is covering up someone else.

I then replied as a REPlY the following to explain wny Rudy would lie as he is doing so:

We'd be back to the Mr & Ms CS & Rudy theory, re the unknown DNA SUPPOSEDLY found on cotton swabs in MK's room.

The SHORT form theory implicates Rudy as an accessory. AK is semi-passed out in her own room (not the kitchen), Rudy goes to the toilet, the 3 of them (Rudy & the CSes) having already started in on Meredith, Rudy as the aggressor with the CSes as amused onlookers. This leaves Meredith threatening retaliation against Rudy AND the CSes for rape. (I really think that during the period 9 to 10:30, Meredith said something threatening to someone. Whether in response or provoked, who can tell?) Rudy's sperm/semen/spit/whatever is already on Meredith who has been really roughed up.

The CSes are NOT people to fool around with. Perhaps Rudy's main distributors? If so, then likely not free-lancers but tied to whomever runs drug distribution around Perugia. Shall we guess? ("Leave the gun, take the canoli".)

The CSes kill Meredith AS A MATTER OF BUSINESS, protecting turf, knowing they have someone to blame it all on. And that someone is a person who, yes, IS more afraid of them [because they will kill him without thinking], whereas if he keeps silent or can spin the story in his favor, still fitting the facts, he'll only do 20 years. By not naming the CSes, he ensures that he won't be knifed to death while in prison. Better to be alive in Pavanne, then dead in Perugia, and he's only 22-23 & has talked himself out of other jams.

There are several ways to save your hide when you know all possible outcomes.

While the above fits what we "know" for that night, it doesn't deal with the fact of the washing machine FINISHING its dry-cycle as the PP show up, and Amanda not saying something so logical about it--as far as we know.

seattleite · 2 years ago

RobertM: Really. Sometimes the officers would call in 10-23 and sometimes they would forget and the next call you would get from them would be the back in service call.

RobertM · 2 years ago

"Responding to Internal Affiars" --> coffe an' break, pattin' down the new waitress.

AndyT · 2 years ago

I remember that bag too Chris. She took an empty bag from RS's apartment over to the house. I've always thought that her original plan was to wash MK's clothes and then remove them from the house in the bag. (Only the postal police arrived too soon for that.) I can't think of any other explanation for taking an empty bag over to the house.
(Or do you think she needed it to take her clothes from her room in the house to the washing machine? That doesn't "wash" with me, I'm sorry.)

seattleite · 2 years ago

10-8 In service. I knew them by heart twenty years ago.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Ha! Now you know Lexus-Nexus and WestLaw by heart.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Hi everyone. Let me see if I can figure out this new site. From what I have seen, the best way to post is to Add New Comments, rather than Reply.

There has been some conjecture concerning the washing of clothes in the morning. Amongst the many scenarios, let's not forget the set-up-the-loser scenario (a.k.a "black man found, culprit found"). The only clothes washed were ones that had other persons' DNA or other incriminating evidence. The bra (what else? panties?) which weren't washed, had Rudy's DNA and no one else. Either he put it there, or someone in the all-night and morning clean-up party (that must have been a downer, having to work and try and focus while still stoned) ensured that his DNA was placed or inserted where it would be found. (ie. the victim was killed in a fun-and-games mix-up with a lot of people, with some petty drug money and maybe also some nasty people (or maybe not)? ==> make it look like the loser who ran out of the house killed her while raping her ((which also actually may be the case)). If it was just Rudy, there is no sense at all - stoned or not stoned - for the others to have cleaned AK's room with bleach, to have washed some but not all the victim's clothes (come on, there's always extra room in the washing machine to squeeze in another pair of underwear), to have cleaned RS's sneakers with bleach, as well as the knife.

(that's my first post here, now I have to figure out "advanced" features like this mysterious Edit thing that everyone is talking about).

seattleite · 2 years ago

RobertM:

In the notes Staeve Huff makes it clear that you may set the whole thing to chron (flat, newest/oldest) as it will make it seem more like what we are used to.

RobertM · 2 years ago

I can't do that on my lap-top. Its not presenting me with the flat format key, just oldest, newest, hottest (that you babe?) etc. And also, I don't have the edit function. So I can see your post of "in the notes" as I've got the setting to Oldest as Thread, but you won't see it. So I'm reposting this as a regular post.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Robert M. wrote: We don't know, but those are the kind of questions ILE should be asking and should already have answers for.

Surely they are. The laundry and the sound of the washer and dryer cycling down when the police arrive I put in the will be resolved category. MK's clothes? From that day or another day? With blood stains?

What I don't need in a theory is two additional people there to do that--put clothes in washer...if the reporting is correct....if the clothes are MKs...if they were clothes she was wearing that night...

RobertM · 2 years ago

BUT -- IF the machine is cycling off when the PP showed up or were entering the house, THEN there had to be at least one (1) other person involved post-death.

The rationale for washing MK's clothes? (1) AK was doing as good deed for MK but doesn't remember doing it, or (2) Someone was washing off evidence, blood & other DNA, but missed picking up the bra and panties from MK's floor.

But why miss the panties which wre quite visible in the crime scene photo, laying at MK's feet? Because once stuff was picked up, and the duvet placed over the body, the door was closed and locked, and the Someone never went back in.

So while 2 people are not needed for the washing machine doing spin-dry when the PP showed up, at least one (1) person is needed.

So it comes back to: was the washing machine all finished or was it in spin-dry, when the PP showed up?

chrischris · 2 years ago

andy, you can't give yourself points. I gave them to Pinecone. To me that is a simple way of saying I agree with what he is saying, instead of taking up text time.

xin · 2 years ago

He had to know his words would travel forward whether recorded or not. He had to have thought through what he would say at some point. He'd had weeks and access to news to help shape his comments. Under the circumstances, he knew he was on the record.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Thanks for the link, chris.I believe I read that article, but discounted it because they didn't bother to correctly translate "hyoid bone", and called it a jawbone. I missed the part about the laundry.

RobertM · 2 years ago

For its implications, see my reply immediately above.

The other current FACT/Non-FACT about the clothes is that we only know that Meredith was mostly disrobed with a top on only, and her bra and panties were on the floor. That's an INCOMPLETE fact in that we don't have a inventory of where any other pieces of clothing were in the room, if they were NOT where they should have been.

Also we don't have an inventory of the clothes in the washer. And we don't know if MK's friends from the dinner/movie party of early evening Nov 1 have been asked to identify whether what was in the wash were the clothes she was wearing at diiner.

We don't know, but those are the kind of questions ILE should be asking and should already have answers for.

fran · 2 years ago

He says he had an insulting word exchange with the murderer and then he fell down when the murderer left the room
He said his clothes with blood on it where in his house. he left them there. he tells the police to check the CCTV camera on a street near his house

His speech seems a bit like in an apnea sometimes -- anyway he didn't know he was controlled -- maybe he was simply nervous and was speaking with difficulty at times

xin · 2 years ago

Thinking: Why would (an unidentified) Person X pick a Meredith to kill? Surely this could not be a *hit* arranged by others. Why her, and why then, at that very moment? (Pinecone, I am thinking that glass may have very well been the final and most brutal weapon.) We know Rudy had an injury on his hand, right? knuckle area. Wonder if he also had scraped knees.

We haven't heard about blood on MK's legs, have we? But we have heard that her clothing was being washed.

Yeah, I remember the chair comment. That would have been a good place for a thorough cleaning, regardless of how the chair may have been used.
Thanks Fran for tran.

xin · 2 years ago

Ok--Imuna try again, inspired by the brave little sparrow, squigg, and the kindness of seattlelite with her patient tips. When i saw RM posting, I knew this was for real. Steve, thanks, you are a Mensch, and I hope you are feeling better, I know what it is like.

There IS a hearing for Amanda on Monday.

Off-topic: I am making slow progress on the MK documents blog, with deep appreciation to K; the goal is to have a repository of documents and other *exhibit* type material as it were, with some relevant links. All case discussion will be here at Steve's blog.

The MK blog is set to private, which I think is a good idea for now, thanks, with respect. For access, send an email to ca94306@gmail.com. I will also send you an invitation to gmail (the free google mail program) to set up, if you wish, an anon mail account (gmail is the best imho) and will give you easy access to all blogs at blogspot, which is a Google product. I like gmail because it has huge storage (I use it as back-up). There are also a bunch of new gmail features including a photo dump and a place to load up documents. As you may know Google has stuck to a *viral* marketing program. Users are supplied with gmail invitations to recruit other users (the each one, reach one idea. i have a bunch of invitations to send.).

Chrisx2: I agree. It's all new. I'm going to try to give you a point. (I've just been clicking those arrows, nothing seems to happen, but the *love* is still there. Oh well.

xin · 2 years ago

Ok--Imuna try again, inspired by the brave little sparrow, squigg, and the kindness of seattlelite with her patient tips. When i saw RM posting, I knew this was for real. Steve, thanks, you are a Mensch, and I hope you are feeling better, I know what it is like.

There IS a hearing for Amanda on Monday.

Off-topic: I am making slow progress on the MK documents blog, with deep appreciation to K; the goal is to have a repository of documents and other *exhibit* type material as it were, with some relevant links. All case discussion will be here at Steve's blog.

The MK blog is set to private, which I think is a good idea for now, thanks, with respect. For access, send an email to ca94306@gmail.com. I will also send you an invitation to gmail (the free google mail program) to set up, if you wish, an anon mail account (gmail is the best imho) and will give you easy access to all blogs at blogspot, which is a Google product. I like gmail because it has huge storage (I use it as back-up). There are also a bunch of new gmail features including a photo dump and a place to load up documents. As you may know Google has stuck to a *viral* marketing program. Users are supplied with gmail invitations to recruit other users (the each one, reach one idea. i have a bunch of invitations to send.).

Chrisx2: I agree. It's all new. I'm going to try to give you a point. (I've just been clicking those arrows, nothing seems to happen, but the *love* is still there. Oh well.

xin · 2 years ago

i do not know how that happened.
i am prepared to have negative points.
Have at it, cw.

chrischris · 2 years ago

it is interesting, I am noticing things in my room that I did not noticed before. example close to my bed is a print of lips with lipstick on the wall. On another wall, written with black pen, there are words: "freedom, you exit, go out soon that English are "freedom, one leaves, I leave soon".

Did you guys see this part of her diary, Google translated from Italian paper Dec 15
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/12/sezioni/cronac...

Reminders. "I also remember how I remembered of everything that had happened that night. I was in my cell thinking and thinking in the hope of remembering, in the hope that I did the right thing, perhaps concerned that the police was right, maybe I since the death of Meredith and maybe I was really confused and I was not able to remember something so tragic. But it is not. In my cell was expecting a response cross my mind when there was a nun at my door. me he said he had patience because God knows everything and I have helped to remind me ... Everything has returned to mind as a flood, a detail after another, until the time when my head fell on the pillow and I was sleeping when Meredith was killed. "

Loz · 2 years ago

"until the time when my head fell on the pillow and I was sleeping when Meredith was killed. "

for christs sake!

RobertM · 2 years ago

Always remember these things are first pass translations. There's a darn good reason that many people make good livings off of translation official documents and/or translating books to & fro. All the famous Russian writers are in need of new translations.

So, I think that "and I was sleeping when" could mean "I was passed out". In this case, its important that the person translating from Italian into English actually speak with the English speaking person who's written English this may be waqs translated into Italian for the newspaper.. It would do us all a world of good, and for the press too, if Repubblicca/Republic printed BOTH versions.

Cripe. Edit function does not appear on my lap-top. Nooooooooooooo!

crobinator · 2 years ago

Robert - you make me grin. :)

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Loz said,"I don't know what to make if the bra thing, and if that means as some have suggested half/full necrophilia, or if he was part of some of the staging?"

What staging, Loz? The scene revealed only what had actually happened there. What needed to be staged?

"at least 1 knife if not two were involved"_Loz

The murder weapon is not known, but you know I'm (figuratively) leaning towards a sliver of glass.

Loz · 2 years ago

pinecone
Why would he (RHG) use a sliver of glass. If he was going to break in, not to ransack (or even to ransack) but to attack someone, why wouln't he bring a knife?
Why has he suddenly jumped from dealing and breaking in to assaulting and murdering someone, and why was AK in contact with him before and after? And why didn't se use her key to open MKs room to RS or the police?
If he did do it alone, I think he would have used a knife. Personally, I think it's weird he knew when MK was there, and that he didn't attack Amanda too.
ALSO, can anyone verify a blood-stained love letter penned by MKs boyfriend was left by the bed. If so, who did this? RHG?

chrischris · 2 years ago

i tried to edit my most recent post because mistakenly I put my comment and the link inbetween the two paragraphs of the article.

--xin I figured out the points when giving you one :-)

Loz: the diary also goes on about Raf--Wish I could do better than google tranlate.

Raffaele. "What I want to do is walk out of here with no evidence to my burden, close in the arms of my mother in a big hug. Even in her cry see. When I can go from here with you, hand in hand, they know finally free. Raffaele Meeting, ask why. What's afraid, if you are telling these lies about me. is something that I do not know precisely explain. matter I really him and when I look within myself I still matter. I want to know because wanted to tell the police that I had something to do with this when I know that he knows that not c'entro nothing. Why should tell them that said to lie? It has no meaning. "

chrischris · 2 years ago

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

The results are expected this week of forensic tests on Ms Kercher's blood-stained bra, and on used chewing gum found on the wardrobe in Ms Kercher's bedroom.

---This is from Nov 27th. Maybe we will get the gum DNA too this week.

Soobs · 2 years ago

Steve, my friend, sometimes I think you care TOO much about what readers think. It's YOUR blog, dude, have fun with it.

chrischris · 2 years ago

This story ( from Nov. 24) quoting Forensics chief of Perugia police, details the significance of the bras location etc.., indicates that Meredith was raped. Rudy is sunk in my oppinion.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/story?i...

Fabio Giobbi, chief of forensics for the Perugia police, told ABC News that both DNA samples are identifiable as Guede's. However, he said, they are still trying to establish wether this was consensual sex or rape.

"We are now waiting for important results from the DNA found on the bra, which was ripped off the victim after the stabbing," Giobbi said. He said investigators believe the bra was ripped off after Kercher was stabbed because it has blood on it and was found near the bedroom door, not close to the victim.

chrischris · 2 years ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7144765.stm

This is a picture of the program from Merediths funeral. I really think that the tone of life was wonderfully done and appropriate.

RobertM · 2 years ago

The ONE benefit from the delay in the burial is Stephanie & family & friends got the chance to do this service up well, cf the booklet, and the stories & songs. Getting a good service up within a week is, I found, a difficult thing. As a contemporary author has put it, "a wake is really for the memories of the living" as the formal focal point for their grief. This was done well.

Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher, your mourners will REMEMBER for a long time and so keep you close and alive.

Kari · 2 years ago

Steve, I've been a lurker since 2005, I've probably made less than five comments in that whole time. I'd still be reading this blog if there was a Miss Piggy background and neon green text for every post. I just wanted to let you know that I really like this new setup and furthermore, I truly appreciate the countless hours of your time that you dedicate to this blog. It's a committment that I recognize and I'm really in awe. Thank you. Really.


.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Here's the link to The Times's story on the funeral. SoosieUK [sp?] & friends went to the church to show their & out support. She has a short piece at the end of the previous thread. xin also has some associated material just above S's post. Do read it.

http://tinyurl.com/2mlvs5

The Guardian has video at http://tinyurl.com/2e3v6l On my tower & dial-up, the video is a slllooooowwww load. Runs about 42 seconds.

Best thing so far about THIS format is the EDIT function. Now if the main posts had numbers instead of avatars... (I mean, I'm "me", not some cartoon character. This "persona" is about 80% what you'd get in "real" life as well as in "byte" life. As for that other 20% persona, well ...)

See what I mean about "edit" function!

The Daily Telegraph has the best "human-interest" stories on the funeral, one an early version and this one later rewrite, "Tributes flow": http://tinyurl.com/yrgapu

I'm getting the impression that Meredith was the baby in the family. Certainly Stephanie's age is over 24 and from general reporting, John Jr & Lyle seem older too. The comment about her being "set-your-watch-to-it"20 minutes late for things has a big brother tone to it. I also liked the pesoanlity that girl-friends of her expressed in another story, re the floral MEZ arrangement: "trying to save money by not going for the full spelling, eh?'

As I've written on the second thread, Meredith was going to have a very good year indeed in Perugia.

fran · 2 years ago

there were two people on the scene of the crime.

RHG says the father he knows the name of the murderer but he is afraid to say it to the police

A woman witness says she was awaken by Meredith's scream and then heard many steps on the gravel outside the house and then two people leacing in two different directions. One of them left on the steps of the car parking, she probably saw the person involved. They escaped immediately but a CCTV is placed there on the steps and the person is recognizable because the stairwell is illuminated. Lawyer Walter Biscotti claims this person is not RHG

xin · 2 years ago

I don't think I'm going to catch on to this, I find the hierarchial structure disjointed. I like OFF and ON and START and FINISH, like that. I'm not smart enough for this format. Maybe later.
Plus the page is too wide.

ansdm, · 2 years ago

what is "links to this post" supposed to mean or do?
how can the thread be more linear?

this thing does not make sense at all to mre.

ansdm, · 2 years ago

what do those weird little arrow tops mean?
what do the points mean?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

OK. I figured out how to get out of the threaded mode. I hope it saves the settings, I just happened to stumble across the page. I doubt I could find it again.

Emily Booth · 2 years ago

I like it! I think I like it the best of all of your furniture rearranging! I like the threads! So much easier to read!

I continue to follow the Foxy Knoxy post (and I appreciate it being used to test the comments) but it seems justice moves slowly in Italy. The Italian newspapers have been featuring excerpts from Amanda Knox's (AK) and Raffaele Sollecito's (RS) prison diaries. It's kind of ironic Ms. Knox has been utilitizing her writing skills in jail to recreate her lost memory of the evening of Meredith Kercher's murder. Would we have Drew Peterson writing a diary in jail to recreate his memory and then published in the Trib? Learning about Perugia, Italy, their criminal justice system and the media's role has been an interesting side benefit to this post.

frangi · 2 years ago

Emily Booth :I like it! I think I like it the best of all of your furniture rearranging! I like the threads! So much easier to read!

I agree!! I was totally confused at first but find it much easier to follow now as we can track replies to individual comments so much more easily.

Bravo Steve!

fran · 2 years ago

Yes, you are right: justice in Italy is slow, sometimes so slow it never comes -- please if you like read on the internet articles and news about the terror years in italy and trials of the Bologna train station carnage

Pinecone · 2 years ago

The vertical arrangement on the old board was easier to navigate to the new comments, but I'll try to keep up here.

DianeP · 2 years ago

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316854,00.html

Found this recent article interesting. Had not heard the "theft of drug money angle" till now.

anon · 2 years ago

You are not following the case but still get two points.

frangi · 2 years ago

Why is she not following the case?

(forgive me if I am poking the trolls..)

Emily Booth · 2 years ago

The story of what happened that evening is becoming clearer.

Hevel · 2 years ago

I don't think I have ever commented on your blogs, but I have been reading them ever since your first article on Crime Library. I have to say I like this layout--not much different from the one I use on two of my blogs-- a lot as well as the threaded comments: my favourite feature of LiveJournal, too.

I can see where Amanda Knox's MySpace can be taken out of context. MySpace is often not a real reflection to one's self, but at the same time people need to learn that the traces they leave on the Net is something they are going to be judged by.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Agreed -- MySpace profiles are not always a good reflection of a person's real self; they are reflections of that which the person is comfortable showing to the world.

Think about that, though -- it's looking past what you see on the page into the question as to why that person chose to make those words or images public. That's how I look at MySpace profiles -- I don't accept at face value the things posted there, I ask, "why did this person think this was worth telling others?" View a MySpace as either a promotional tool or a short summary of what the owner wants others to think of them.

This means that they can often say the opposite thing the owner intends -- say a guy feels inadquate with women -- if he accepts every porn spam friend request he receives, if he actively friends single women (a percentage of which will reject him, another percentage will blithely accept the request) -- well, he might end up with what appear to be 1,000 lovely females attached to his profile.

To me that says the opposite thing the guy intended -- knowing how the whole porn spam profile on MySpace thing works, that says to me that the guy in that hypothetical is a freaking loser who can't score with real women in the real world. It also says that one reason he won't score, or at least not score well, is because he objectifies women to the point where he thinks they may have actually looked at his profile and thought he was attractive.

Now, even that conclusion of mine could be wrong, but frankly, it won't be, most of the time. To me, MySpace profiles (or any personal profiles) are never about just what you see -- they are about the overall statement made.

Amanda Knox's "statement" was multi-leveled. She didn't really appear to be looking for new guys on that profile, perhaps to her credit -- she seemed to want to make it clear to others that while she was attractive (she noted the modeling stuff) she was literate, too -- literate, and cool. That was really what I got from a first look at her profile.

I did have to wonder about a couple of over-written short stories touching on themes of sex and violence -- but you know, if that was a reason to believe someone is a killer, we'd have to be looking askance at any one of a hundred professional writers out there.

I've found her strange behavior since Meredith's murder far more telling, and the MySpace has been of less interest with each passing day. It's only a hint of what Amanda might be like, not a true representation, imho.

frangi · 2 years ago

"I did have to wonder about a couple of over-written short stories touching on themes of sex and violence"

I actually found them more of an indication of her immaturity Steve.
As you said, she was keen to make people think she was cool and literate.
Playing the part of the cool writer/artist on her way overseas to live.

MikeSchuler · 2 years ago

Four of Amanda's friends were on Good Morning America this morning, and they are objecting to just about everything that's been said in the media. They say that her MySpace page is all taken out of context. They say the media has twisted everything and that everything they report about Amanda is false. It must be some kind of worldwide conspiracy.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Funny, ain't it, how things are always "taken out of context." Man, if I had a nickel for every time some friend or family member of an accused criminal has said that either in a blog comment or on the Internet.

While I know there is sometimes a grain of truth to the complaint, it generally seems to be what they say when they can't say unequivocally without potentially looking stupid later, "I know he/she didn't do it."

Really, with Amanda, some of them are probably thinking or saying amongst themselves, 'Man, she was always a little psycho, but I just know she'd never do anything like this!'

Nikra · 2 years ago

This looks great.

nursebeeme · 2 years ago

ahhhh...sooooo....back in a sec...I think I finally figured this out...however..one comment....Meredith better keep quiet or she will end up like Drew Peterson (ie, seriously mame her defense)imo

stevehuff · 2 years ago

You mean Amanda Knox, don't you?

nursebeeme · 2 years ago

YES.....SORRY STEVE......

Nana · 2 years ago

And away we go!

Hope my learning curve isn't too steep. :)

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Nana, I'm sure you'll be fine =)

Twinks · 2 years ago

Oh....I do not do well with change LOL It's going to take me a bit to get used to this new layout!! :P

stevehuff · 2 years ago

I promise I'll keep the changes to a minimum from here on out. I'm pretty satisfied with this one so far, so it won't go anywhere soon.

Rhonda · 2 years ago

Okay , this is much better....something I can read. Thanks Pinecone & Squiggle. Felt like I was in a strange bathroom and didn't know which hand towel to use.

ansdm, · 2 years ago

I've clicked on lots of weird stuff but have not found "view posts." this company could use a good copywriter. clue #1: disqus...contrived name. i give them a year.

ansdm, · 2 years ago

OK.I am NOT going to shift this page back and forth to be able to scroll or hit the back button.
it's too hard on my hands.

xin · 2 years ago

i hate this thing.
i feel we will not be found by good posters.

xin · 2 years ago

funny funny funny

did some research on this company
very very very funny from a marketing perspective.
and personal history.
good gawd. the world is too small huh?
steve: DO NOT GIVE THESE GUYS ANY MONEY

chrischris · 2 years ago

Ok giving this new thread a try. I was chris before, but that name is taken. Thank you steve for all of your hard work.

They got Rudy DNA ,before he was apprehended, from his flat in italy. There were serveral stories about that

chrischris · 2 years ago

I don't trust that I am really seeing all the comments-- Is this all I have to do to ensure that I see all the comments in chronological order, even when someone hits reply to a comment as oppose to just posting in " add new comment"?

Choose FLAT instead of THREADED to get in in chronological order. You can also select OLDEST or NEWEST first. There are some other choices too.
Pinecone | 12.14.07 - 11:41 pm | #

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Yes, it really is. That's the difference between flat and threaded. If you're not convinced, have a look at the difference in where RobertM's post (just below yours on "Newest & Flat") appears where you toggle between Flat and Threaded.

RobertM · 2 years ago

But what then happens if you select FLAT is that the REPLY posts seem to get tucked down at the bottom of of the column, with only the MAIN Posts appearing in Reverse chrono order, i.e. newest to oldest. So for me, except for the Edit function, this is Worse Format for grasping the total thread of conversation than was the Haloscan format.

The only thing I can choose to do is NEVER use the reply format if I think what I want to contribute is of some substance, rather than just a specific correction or side note.

chrischris · 2 years ago

thanks Squiggle-- yes, the robert test is the proof--thank you! Im getting use to this new format, just change is disconcerting at first. But, this new space loads faster, etcc. So all is well :-) except of course, now I am chrischris, not chris

chrischris · 2 years ago

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/

new post there. Not much new but, he does have a point

Judges don't believe at all this version. Bu, as a matter of fact, there are two elements corroborating it.
1) He left the toilet dirty like he was in the rush. It doesn't cost anything to flush the toilet, a fraction of second. If you don't do it there must be a reason that really urges you to get out of the bathroom.
2) He tried to write a name on the wall risking, in that way, to leave his fingerprint. If you are the murderer you try to leave as few traces as possible, not to create deliberately a new one.
Will see.

crobinator · 2 years ago

The doubts posted on that link are in reference to his DNA found inside MK when he claimed to only have had oral sex with her. For fear of sounding crass, but despite what the poster says, it is possible through many different ways, for his DNA to get inside her and still not have penetrated her. I'm just sayin'. Good link; thanks. :)

chrischris · 2 years ago

http://www.agi.it/italy/news/200712142055-cro-r...

MEREDITH: RUDY'S DNA FOUND ON VICTIM'S BRA
(AGI) - Rome, 14 Dec. - There is new evidence against Rudy Herman Guede, suspected of being one of Meredith Kercher's murderers. The forensic unit laboratory of biology in Bologna has isolated Guede's DNA on a broken part of the victim's bra.

chrischris · 2 years ago

Loz, thanks. I discovered you have to hit the third botton "see all replies " when I went to my profile and hit replies..cause Pinecone commented, but I did not see it til I hit see all replies. I really think it works best for me for people to just post a new comment, not a reply

Your Ps....LOL

xin · 2 years ago

chris--funny.
i found a little blood smear above my bed
from an old hammer accident.
it's been wiped away with bleach.

ps ok points work if you are signed in.

xin · 2 years ago

Frank at
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/
has a new entry up, start here, and continue at link, as usual it fits with the news reports:


Saturday, December 15, 2007
AF FOR R-AFF-AELE

Police today released the record of the Skipe phone call of Rudy Guede from Germany with his friend in Perugia. The very nice friend who pretended to be alone while instead he was working for the police (they had just instantly nominated him police auxiliary).

"I had met Meredith the night before, at halloween party, that's why we had appointment for that night. "
"In the house there were other people."
" I tried with her and she accepted it. Then we stopped 'cause nor me neither her had a condom."
"While I was in the bathroom I heard the attack. I came out of the bathroom with my pants still open I couldn't stop him while he escaped."
"When I went away the glass of the window wasn't broken and Meredith was dressed.

(continue at perguia shock)

amy · 2 years ago

xin,
did they release the voice or just a transcription of the call?

xin · 2 years ago

trasncript i think.

xin · 2 years ago

Sparrow: You make some excellent clear points in your theory below ("gotta get something off my chest"), clear and compelling. So, Seattle WA is not far enough away from the baddest guy for Amanda to squeal? Or afraid for Rafe if she helps ID the criminal? They'd all rather be in jail for 20 years than to reveal (or direct an investigation toward) the real culprit? Pinecone?

((re: this place: New posts are displayed only via reloadbutton? I liked that yellow thing at the bottom of HScan.))

sparrow · 2 years ago

"So, Seattle WA is not far enough away from the baddest guy for Amanda to squeal? Or afraid for Rafe if she helps ID the criminal?

Xin, if the scenario I suggested were true, Amanda would be the safest one to squeal. But maybe she doesn't want to. She trusts that her lawyer will get her off. From ChrisChris' translation of her diary: ""What I want to do is walk out of here with no evidence to my burden." That's what she wants. Telling the truth would not allow her that. She wants to pretend it never happened.

"They'd all rather be in jail for 20 years than to reveal (or direct an investigation toward) the real culprit?""

I don't think AK or RS think they will be in jail that long. RHG is another story. But if the guy is really connected, Rudy may not be safe anywhere, even in jail. Rudy is really, really screwed, and he knew it when the guys said "Black man found is a black man guilty." Or whatever it was.

The big fear is though, that the police would rather prosecute RHG than look for this other type person. If RHG is not guilty, he is a very easy fall guy, very easy to frame. He has no protection.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"When I went away the glass of the window wasn't broken and Meredith was dressed.".Rudy at http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/ (xin's comment)

We already know Meredith was not dressed when Rudy left..
His saying the window was not broken is important. He would not have mentioned the window if it were not incriminating for him. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there were glass fragments in the victims wounds. Rudy probably has some embedded in that wound in his palm, too. They should x-ray that hand. If the glass is leaded, it will be visible.

fran · 2 years ago

This is Guede speaking on skype with his friend

fran · 2 years ago

Three parts

chrischris · 2 years ago

Fran

If it was in english we could have given it to the Eyes for Lies blog for analysis. :-( Thought about asking Eyes for lies to look at Amanda's freinds interview , but I thought that would most likely be a waste of their time.

chrischris · 2 years ago

eyes for lies needs video actually, in english,. But if anyone who understands italian sees videos, such as the few of RS dad, click her for some of eyes for lies technique to see lies visually.

http://www.eyesforlies.com/

chrischris · 2 years ago

fran--does Rudy mention the chair he used to defend himself against the guy with the knife after he got stabbed in the hand? Lots of stories since that this chair does not exist because they have not found his finger prints or blood on a chair.

rudy clothes with blood on them at his house--whose blood. his or merediths?

fran · 2 years ago

he fell sorry

fran · 2 years ago

No, he doesn't mention a chair - he doesn't mention about the "af, af" - he doesn't mention there were two other people as he says now

AndyT · 2 years ago

I just listened to the RHG recording. He's speaking very fast and he says a lot (his friend hardly gets a word in), and his voice is a lot more "cultivated" than I had anticipated. Those are my observations.

Are we to assume that he didn't even consider the possibility that LE were listening in? I mean, was he putting on a show, or was he just telling a good buddy his version of events (however skewed this may have been)?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Xin: We know Rudy had an injury on his hand, right? knuckle area.

***No, it was in the palm of his hand. He showed it to some photogs (at the airport, I think).

Xim: We haven't heard about blood on MK's legs, have we? But we have heard that her clothing was being washed.

I believe most of us have heard there was no blood on the victim's legs. We've heard nothing about her clothing being washed, although that was part of some of the "clean-up" theories.

xin · 2 years ago

Palm, thanks, pc, possibly from glass.

chrischris · 2 years ago

pinecone--We've heard nothing about her clothing being washed, although that was part of some of the "clean-up" theories.

from nov 26th http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

Further reports said that police who went to the cottage that Ms Kercher shared with Ms Knox and two Italian women found the British student’s clothes in the washing machine. Tests for fingerprints will be done on Ms Kercher’s bloodstained bra — one of the garments not put in the machine by the time that police arrived.

RobertM · 2 years ago

FACT: MK's clothes were in the washer at 11:35 a.m. on Sat., Nov 2.

Non-FACT: We don't know yet if the machine was:
(a) on, i.e. somewhere in mid-cycle, or was
(b) sitting there with wet clothes after the last spin cycle.

If the former, then someone OTHER than MK put the clothes inthe machine, added the cleanser and started it. If the latter, very possible that MK herself shortly after getting back from friends, put a load of laundry on herself, and that finished load just sat there all night.

This is the type of problem we regularly encounter in our discussions. I'm going to pick this up as a separate post but thought it appropriate here with the relink.

As a FACT with a time stamp, this can go into your timeline XIN.

EmilyBooth · 2 years ago

FWIW, I remember reading it was the sound of the washing machine that alerted the postal police.

AndyT · 2 years ago

"bloodstained bra — one of the garments not put in the machine by the time that police arrived."

We can conclude that RHG's dna was found on one of the few unwashed items, and that the other items had been washed by the two other main suspects.

DLW · 2 years ago

I hope the postal police can nail down the exact time they first arrived at Meredith’s flat. Then they could correspond that with the time that when Rafflaele called his sister, and/or police. I suspect they didn’t want to call anyone. Why not wait until the other roommates , or better yet MK’s boyfriend to discover the grisly scene. Precious time would have been gained by the killer(s), & possible accomplice(s). The coroner would have had a harder time determining the exact time of death, increasing the number potential suspects. In addition, AK/RS would have had additional time to cover their tracks (washing & cleaning) and create new alibi’s.

Loz · 2 years ago

DLW: "I hope the postal police can nail down the exact time they first arrived at Meredith’s flat"

They didn't know about the mushroom being a good timer though. HA!
also, they have it on CCTV?

EmilyBooth · 2 years ago

That's a good point, DLW. If the postal police hadn't shown up when they did...Raffaele did not call his sister, the cop, until 20 minutes after the postal police arrived. However, he told them he had called prior to their arrival. I agree, I don't think they intended to call anyone.

AndyT · 2 years ago

Thanks for that DLW.
When thinking about this case, I've always wondered what would have happened if the postal police had not arrived at that point. Another thing I've never understood - I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify (perhaps Pinecone has some thoughts) - why were RS and AK standing outside the house when the postal police arrived. What were they doing there - waiting for a friend or something? Or did they come out of the house because they saw the policemen walking up the garden path?

chrischris · 2 years ago

yes robert, I remember debating this on other thread. The fact is simply MK's clothes in machine. period.

Also, everyone remember to REFRESH, or else you won't see new posts here.
Steve--Maybe you could put that in your Tech instructions???? txs

RobertM · 2 years ago

I really dislike this format, except for editing but as I've found out certain functions appear on my tower and don't appear on my laptop.

I've selected oldest to newest, so everytime I post, whether as reply or post and hit "post", it cycles me back to page 1, the oldest page. I'm so used to going down or what I think of as left to right. Drat.

ALSO, with this page break format, its even harder to tell people where to look for a previous post as there's NO SET TIME STAMP for the post, nor does a post stay on any particular page.

Certain parts of discussions will be harder to do.

crobinator · 2 years ago

That is the one and only feature, thus far, that I don't like. When I post a comment, I'm taken back to page 1 - and I can't jump to a page after that. Frustrating and time-consuming. Perhaps there's an option hidden somewhere that can change this. I'll research.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

I believe RS's attorneys have documentation that will prove the police are mistaken about the times of the phone calls.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Really???? What do you mean by that? Off by what? Minutes, half an hour, or a full hour or what?

All police forces work with despatchers & calls/responses are time-coded. I'm not sayin gthat the PP individuals don't log off for the cofee & doughnut run, but this was all in response to "mysterious" cell-phones that appeared in a lady's back-yard. All the calls from PP on scene to despatcher will be time-coded. So how can RS lawyers prove otherwise?

chrischris · 2 years ago

Andy T and Robert M----"Andy T--But ChrisChris how can you agree with a belief?" " Robert M--All police forces work with despatchers & calls/responses are time-coded"

-- RS lawyers said they had evidence to dispute the postal police claims. We will see. I wouldn't be surprised if they did. We have not seen any official statements about this as evidence. We will see.

chrischris · 2 years ago

Robert M. "OK. True. A CONSISTENT statement from both. However, it is repeatedly stated in two links that the clothes being washed"

I wanted to indicate that I agreed with you on this point--but alas, for some unknown reason, the arrows are not available to give you points on this post. At this point atleast.

RobertM · 2 years ago

I think it depends what platform you are on & what machine. My tower uses W98 and I have all functions. My laptop (Dell Latitude) also has W98 and no, it both formats oddly and I'm not getting certain functions. Haven't tried the points yet. Too dangerous!!!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Wow. Windows 98. Not too many boxes that still have that on it. In any case, any differences you see between machines will be due to the browser you are using, not the operating system. This site relies pretty heavily on Javascript and CSS, so you really need an up-to-date browser. I suggest that you download and install the latest Firefox on both machines (http://www.mozilla.com/). You will then get consistent browsing, compliant with modern web standards.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Thanks Squiggle, but I don't like Firefox, and I like dependability -- except that all those product developers keep thinking up new-fangled things that SCREW UP dependability. The laptop was supposed to get a Windows update but its a long story. And as I've said, the tower W98 & browser generation capture this format's features OK. Just not the laptop. i haven't tried the other tower yet.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Well, each to his own, I suppose. IMHO Firefox is dramatically better than IE - especially old IE. In fact IE7 is effectvely a Firefox clone. But then, I routinely use Mac OS X, Linux and (rarely) Windows machines, so I love the fact that Firefox is freely available and completely consistent and dependable on all these platforms.

fran · 2 years ago

RHG could be lying but if he is lying he is covering up someone else
Nonetheless a witness documents at least two people at the house at the moment of the murder (three if we have to add RHG). This witness has come up already at the end of November (from italian newspapers today) so the police knows more than we know. The witness' statement has been leaked now probably to put pressure on suspects

RobertM · 2 years ago

We'd be back to the Mr & Ms CS & Rudy theory, re the unknown DNA SUPPOSEDLY found on cotton swabs in MK's room.

The SHORT form theory implicates Rudy as an accessory. AK is semi-passed out in her own room (not the kitchen), Rudy goes to the toilet, the 3 of them (Rudy & the CSes) having already started in on Meredith, Rudy as the aggressor with the CSes as amused onlookers. This leaves Meredith threatening retaliation against Rudy AND the CSes for rape. (I really think that during the period 9 to 10:30, Meredith said something threatening to someone. Whether in response or provoked, who can tell?) Rudy's sperm/semen/spit/whatever is already on Meredith who has bene really roughed up.

The CSes are NOT people to fool around with. Perhaps Rudy's main distributors? If so, then likely not free-lancers but tied to whomever runs drug distribution around Perugia. Shall we guess? (Leave the gun, take the canoli.) They kill Meredith AS A MATTER OF BUSINESS, protecting turf, knowing they have someone to blame it all on.

And that someone is a person who, yes, IS more afraid of them [because they will kill him without thinking], whereas if he keeps silent or can spin the story in his favor, still fitting the facts, he'll only do 20 years. By not naming the CSes, he ensures that he won't be knifed to death while in prison.

There are several ways to save your hide when you know all possible outcomes.

While the above fits what we "know" for that night, it doesn't deal with the fact of the washing machine FINISHING its dry-cycle as the PP show up, and Amanda not saying something so logical about it--as far as we know. [AFAWK??]

Pinecone · 2 years ago

fran said: RHG could be lying but if he is lying he is covering up someone else

Me: There's no "if" about it. Rudy's lying.He has no credibility. Rudy is concerned about no one except Rudy.

fran · 2 years ago

Thank you we know you know a lot

Rhonda · 2 years ago

Good to see you over here Fran......now I'm only missing our belle and soozie.

fran · 2 years ago

Well, I prefer to be just a reader now and then help here and there when it is needed ... people is really writing and speculating so much.. it's amazing and maybe a bit disturbing...

Thank you for taking me into consideration :-)
Ciao

Kermit · 2 years ago

Rudy's concerned only about Rudy, Amanda about Amanda, and RS about RS. They're all lying!

Kermit · 2 years ago

I don't want to complain about the new format, but one nice thing of the old blog was the EST time stamp (especially since we're in many different time zones, log in at different times, and we may reply - through posting!! - to someone's comment from hours before).

That allowed us to open a posting with a reference to the specific comment of the person that we were posting about (especially if that person had made many other postings in the meantime).

Like I say, Steve, not a complaint, but if that feature could be invoked, it would be great (I know, I know, the logical response to me is to say, Use the Reply button .... hmmmm.)

RobertM · 2 years ago

Kermit why yes, but about what specifically and how much in total are the questions. Without more evidence leaked to the public, our theories, like the short one on the CSes and why Rudy would fear them more than the ILE & Courts (posted in reply to Fram just previous), can't be narrowed down.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

On the "Dashboard" page, under Settings, is a place to set the time stamp to Absolute (real time) or Relative (such as 4 minutes ago). I guess the boss would have to set the preference. I changed it on my profile, but don't see any changes.

chrischris · 2 years ago

i agree that it would be GREAT to have a perminant time stamp on the posts. And yes, wasn't humphrey Bogart in that movie Robert M, or some such movie of overthrowing the ship ;-)

seattleite · 2 years ago

Of course..in Goddfellas its about the coffee after they kill the driver. Hey I corrected my Fonda to Van Johnson...it wasn't in the form of question.

RobertM · 2 years ago

OK. But it seems that POINTS are not accumulated per poster but for the particular post. I'l go back and add it to the post with 3.

RobertM · 2 years ago

The system is not cooperating. I hit the add button and it took a point away! I'll try later.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Robert M, I agree with your scenario and believe that while AK owed money to Rudy, I believe that Rudy owed money to his supplier, who, unlike Rudy, is a ruthless and hardcore criminal.

I believe that when MK arrived home, she found Rudy and AK stealing money from her drawer. I think she was probably incensed and not only called AK a drugged up tart, but also threatened to throw AK out and call the police. At that point I think that its possible that AK assisted Rudy by holding MK down while Rudy attempted to rape her. Soon after, Rudy’s infamous “spicy kabob” kicked in, and unable to finish, Rudy ran to the bathroom. While he was in there, I suspect that, pulling her pants back on, MK continued to threaten AK. Somewhere in this process, Rudy’s suppliers arrive to collect the money that Rudy owes them. They, rather than rape MK, try to force her in to total submission by forcing her to her knees, demanding oral sex. As MK struggles against the person who is holding her by her neck from behind (AK?) the man in front of her holds a knife to her throat. Someone tries to force her mouth open, resulting in bruising on her lips and gums. As she continues to resist, the person behind her cuts her once, and then again-- but not deeply. MK continues to fight and the man in front draws his knife and deals the lethal cut.

MK screams and RG runs from the bath just as he has told police, but in reality the murderer is not a stranger. Rudy not only knows him and his companions, but fears them as well. I believe that as they were leaving, they probably did shout the remarks about a black man found is a black man convicted. I suspect it is also true that Rudy was horrified by the murder, while, as Robert M suggests, it was a matter of business for the supplier.

I believe that AK felt enough culpability that she then tried to stage a break in and a clean up of any evidence that might implicate her. I am sure that she did not anticipate the international attention that the case would receive, and she hoped that she could implicate Patrick L. (she told her mother that everyone though t the real killer had been caught.). and never herself be found out.. I believe she didn’t implicate Rudy because he was someone who could in turn implicate her. I further believe that Rudy is frightened for his life if he implicates his dealer, et al. Even in prison, Rudy would have reason to fear reprisal. The one missing piece is RS. Where exactly he fits into this scenario I don’t know. But I suspect he did have some part in it somewhere

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor:

Shouldn't there be AK DNA all over MK and the drawer and the money?

annarbor · 2 years ago

What police suspect is the money, minus a small amount was found in AK's pocket when she was taken into custody. And while i know that the clean up and staging of a break in is not something that everyone agrees happened, i believe it did. I think that is the reason that much of MK's clothes were found in the wash.

annarbor · 2 years ago

And, I don't know for certain that AK assisted with the sexual assault...But I suspect she must have felt culpable for something, or she would not have felt the need to lie and conceal.

annarbor · 2 years ago

I don't know enough about the DNA testing to know. I don't know if AK thought to wash fhe areas that she touched. I don't doubt that she would've if she indeed assisted. Perhaps she didn't . Perhaps, as Robert M specualtes, she was a passive observer in the next room, :"covering her ears" as MK screamed. There is evidence that MK was held by the neck with enough force to leave finger marks. AK's ? or Hardcore Dealer's companion?

Loz · 2 years ago

annarbor:
"Perhaps, as Robert M specualtes, she was a passive observer in the next room"
agreed, but the thing is from 'eyes for lies', she said PL went into MKs room while I stayed in the kitchen.
Which means that she's 'active' and knew what was going on in that sense. But not active in a she plunged the weapon kind of way :)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

I am not sure there is any evidence of finger prints on MK face or neck. What was stated in the press was that enough forced was used to leave hand and finger impressions (bruises?) on her facial/neck area. I am not even sure it is possible to leave a fingerprint on another persons skin. Natural body oils mingled with another's natural body oils. Any finger print forensic expert here for comment?

RobertM · 2 years ago

We all need "points" in real life, seattleite, but that was a bit of fun, eh?

As to "trial by newspaper". I've decided that its a Good Thing in general, though subject to the kind of manipulation that makes that Kirk Douglas mid-1950s movie so nihilistically great. The popcorn turns sour in your stomach watching that one.

I say its a good thing because from what I've seen/read over the years, the more light on a case, the less the chance for miscarriage of justice. If the process is FOR the public good, why then its OK that the public sees what's going on. I'm even in favor of NOT shielding members of a jury from the glare of public scrutiny. Now there is a danger in that, but we've gone pretty far if not too far the other way.

So if material is appearing in the press from Source One, its not Source One's responsbility to see to it that the journalists get info from Source Two. And the journalists!! Well that's where parts of your "screed" are appropriate. As is in printing the pap in panting prose without giving it the story-work-over. Or, as I posted below, not printing the Original English version along with their Italian translation. So when Amanda's dad OKs the interview by lawyers that appeared earlier this week, I want the original in English and not just what the lawyers translated it as. And you know that her father couldn't do it, if he's even still in Italy (I suspect he'll come back for Christmas). But, NO!

Not having this means we'd be like the UK papers that now that a fellow has been arrested for last years Ipswich murders (& THAT was a superb Huff thread), mum's the word. Couldn't even post posts like this from a UK server per government orders, which is why a lot of UK people find these threads. And because of this fellow's past (he was a long time cruise ship worker -- many ports of call--so high chance of really effective serial killer), the local interest ought to be high. But now charged, the drapes are over the whole prosecution and defense. We may not know even when the trial is supposed to start though it should be posted in the Crown Court schedule. There's protecting a person's right to a fair trial [yet even there, you can get convicted on a 10 to 2 vote!!] but then there's that centralized control, the authoritarian impulse, that's the worst thing for a democratic polity.

So let the Italian journalists print as much as they can. For me, they should print MORE - work harder & smarter. I'm still convinced there's a bigger story behind this, whether its a version of annarbor's or rob's. No aiding & abetting a railroad job, just as no aiding a cover-up.

Remember, the one who comes to you with the offer of the meeting is the Judas.

Viv · 2 years ago

Telegraph's latest report here - includes a few details about the earlier encounter RG had with the beak (Matteini). Last Friday he exercised his right to silence. Note that the correspondent Malcolm Moore includes 'it is reported' and 'apparently'.

If the exchanges happened as reported, then the court must have been alive with audible squirms and legal teeth-grinding. Every barrister I know dreads this sort of client...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=...

I hope the new 'chunks' of Knoxdiary aren't that chunky - or Kermit, Belle and the other doughty translators are going to be in for some fun...

annarbor · 2 years ago

After following this case from the start, as inviting a villainess as AK is , I have not been convinced of the notion of premeditation, no matter how disfunctional her childhood may or may not have been. I believe that AK's lifestyle--and drug use-- was one huge ingredient, I have felt all along that MK was an innocent that walked into a hellish perfect storm. Had she come home an hour later, or not checked her drawer to see if her money was there, she may still be alive. But as it was, I believe she waldked into a situation that incensed her, and while AK and Rudy on their own might've retaliated, I don't believe that either of them had it in them to kill her. But I believe that there was someone there that night who did.

I do wonder about AK. If for some reason Patrick couldn't supply the witnesses to his alibi that he needed, would he be in prison, and would AK go on with her life, keeping her secret forever? If her role in the murder was passive, but her role in the coverup and stonewalling more pronounced, what will her penalty be?

And will the solving of this case assuage any of the pain for MK's family....

annarbor · 2 years ago

I understand why you would say that, seattleite. It may be that she was a passive bystander. I just don't understand, if she didn't have any sort of active role, why she would lie and implicate PL and stonewall to the degree that she has. And I know that not everyone believes that there was an altering of the crime scene, but I do. And it appears to me that AK was part of that alteration.

These things seem to me to indicate some kind of culpability . No?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

seattleite said: I am open to Amanda involvement unintentionally and through stupidity to making that house an unsafe environment but there is zip evidence that she participated in the murder.

You're right. I bet we'll hear about additional DNA results this coming week. I'm putting my bets on Rudy for the hair in Meredith's hand and the blood on the wall.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Reposting this as a new topic, as I suspect that RobertM is not seeing replies
RobertM, I bet that you are still using the "wrong" page. I bet you are at http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/2007/12/open-thr... because that's the version that is paginated and is causing you grief. To get the most Haloscan-like version, go to http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... No pagination, saving will work, etc. etc.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Prescient, you are. Diligent digger. Skilled in the ways of Coders. Microserf, perhaps?

And, thanks, yes you are quite correct. Its always just a really versatile type-writer to me. I avoid trying to think like an Software Engineer as much as possible but when living off this thing, well, its unavoidable. I will now transport myself by means of this infected Tardis-like monstrosity (you should see my IBM XT up stairs as the monitor table) to
the
correct
page!
Voila!!

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Microserf? No. Quite the opposite. I'm all about OSS. I do teach Software Engineering though (amongst other things) :) I have also developed and maintained a variety of websites and web applications over the last 13 years.

I guess you are now able to set the "Flat" view too.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Pinecone:Very amusing. How could she have known the cops in Perugia are jackasses?

Why would she think otherwise? Perugia is a small town compared to Rome or even Seattle. Plus as I said before, I don't think anyone would've anticipated the attention that this case has received.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

annarbor: But what about the blood evidence with DNA from an unidentified man and woman? What about the witness from across the street that saw more than one person fleeing the scene? Or the evidence of two knives inflicting wounds?

1. Blood evidence from unidentified people does not prove AK was involved. As a matter of fact, that information can be used by her defense attorney in her favor.
2.The witness who saw more than one person leaving provides no evidence against AK. Ditto with the defense attorney.
3. It's not been established that even one knife was used, let alone two.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Seattleite,

I understand your point about Patrick being older and wiser. However, I still think that even a scared kid would tell the truth and stay with it. Granated, initially she may have been intimidated into her story about hearing MK screams.. But once she retracted that, she went to "Maybe there...Maybe not" . The loss of memory seems far fetched at best to me. I have smoked some very potent hash in my life, and I never lost my memory from it. And certainly not for the length of time that she claims to not remember.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Can't binge and heavy hashish use leave the same short term and permanent memory lost that binge alcohol consumption does, after one wakes ups with the hangover? "WTF did I do last night? I can't remember a thing after we left the bar for..........". Sound familiar to anyone in their youthful experiences.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

I haven't smoked weed since it seems like god created dirt. Be that at it may my long term memory now recalls how it was a social drugs (friends doing it together), making you pleasant, hilariously funny (laughs all around), making you hungry for munchies, AND making for "short term memory loss". Laughing, "I can't even remember what I just said", laughing "what?, I said that? that is funny". Is my long term memory now shot to hell also?

"please pass the joint, will you?" :-) :-)

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Hi cw, just thought I'd point out that explicitly linking to the post you're replying to is redundant, since the "Parent" link available by hovering over the poster's icon provides that... except that it is sometimes broken on the paginated version :)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Thanks Squiggle, am aware of that because it would just link to the parent. The reason I was doing it was for posters who would be using the flat view of posts. In that case my posts would be appearing in chronological order and thus not linked or even referenced to the original.

My posts are obviously crazy and provocative enough without them sounding like I am talking to ........myself? *lol*. Does this make sense or am I still being redundant?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

No that's not true. Even when you're in flat view (as I am), the parent link is still available by hovering over the icon of the post. If everyone used this as it was intended (e.g. using "reply" to follow-up a post instead of creating a new thread), then it would be fine for everyone in both views.

I agree with Loz (http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...) that quoting some text to give context can still be useful. And explicit linking still has its role (as in this example) when cross-referencing a post other than the one to which one is replying.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Ok, i think I finally got it. If I wish to look at the parent link of a reply whether in flat view or threaded view I just hover [what a nice word :-( ] over the icon and open the parent link in another tab. Makes sense after trying it a couple times here. Best still though if one uses the threaded view to see all replies. The downside to threaded view is you never know when someone has posted another reply to one of your original posts or to a post you previously replied to which you wished to still follow.
So a bit of give and take, nothing perfect. I think I'll go back to the Loz method then (what we were doing in halocan and stay in the flat view, knowing now that I can always "hover" and figure out what the new reply post is replying to. And maybe add a bit of quote as a courtesy.

It remains a bit confusing trying to read the comments now without quotes at least.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

cw: "I just hover [what a nice word :-( ]"

I'd love to take credit, but it's actually the term used in both CSS and Javascript to describe this behaviour.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I feel we are still going to have a lot of poster confusion as other posters return to this thread, choose one view or the other and try to reply to comments of others using either the reply link (which then places the reply in the correct context with the parent post) in the threaded view but sort of out of context in the flat view without the link. Then for those using a new post to effect a reply, I have already been confused as to what post they are referring too.

But since getting your input, I've gone from the flat view to the threaded view but kept the links. I guess that is going to be just as confusing to the original parent poster as not providing a link. Any advice would be appreciated.

RobertM · 2 years ago

See my reply to Seatteite's comment that you quote. False confessions are all TOO common, and the whole upgrade in interrogation training derives from cities & states loosing lawsuits over false arrests. I tell the most recent NY State story in the reply below. If interested, go to the New York Times and check the archives. Alas, false confessions are not the only issue here. In the UK throughout the 1980s ,but turning up only afterwards, was a series of cases where as they couldn't get the confession, they manufactured evidence. (This was before real standards for DNA, fibers, etc.) Scared kids can easily be "guided" into telling falsehoods.

Loz · 2 years ago

double

Loz · 2 years ago

RM: "False confessions are all TOO common"

she's got a good lawyer to deal with that. Don't worry about it, she'll have her day in court. However, there's lot of other little things that stack up against her.

And, despite being treated well now for some time, she hasn't been able to come up with a good clear account of what she was doing that night/morning.

Her memory still fails at the exact same times in the timeline as RSs does, yet remembers the same points:
Amelie, 11pm, plastic bag, mop & pipes. etc.

The phone call to her mum was 100% clearly in reference to her own student digs.

Time for her to think of MKs family and just tell the truth. No matter how much she loves RS/RHG or whatever the reason.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Does anyone know why Steve chose this new comments software over his old haloscan system. Steve? Comment please? I am not crazy about it either and I do not mind change at all when it improves usability. This system is ok and easy to grasp and learn, except for the missing time stamp and a quick link to the post one wishes to reply to, which the latter haloscan didn't have either.
The point system is rather sophomoric and though I think it is supposed to signify votes about agreeing with a post or not, it becomes meaningless and seems to be used more as a silent flaming vote, as I noted my posts from yesterday went from 1 and 2 points to zeros. (I am certainly aware of particular posters here who care more to flame me and others than to just ignore posts or at the least argue the merits rather than the person. But that is always the case in any blog's comments.)

Anyway, this crime continues to fascinate all and because of the unprecedented, in my experience, of media coverage and Italian investigatory methods, it leads any normally sane person to consider endless possibilities of what happened and why? Fascinating I guess is an understatement.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I have one last thought and question I wish to ask other posters here. In my understanding of the Italian justice and crime investigation system the four suspects named to date, three in custody and one released from detention due to lack of evidence, none have been officially arrested and/or charged with this crime.
To me it would be quite proper and wise for all the suspects under guidance of lawyers to deny any guilt or even involvement of any kind (though RG has admitted his involvement to a degree). The strategy of LE I see for now is to get one or more of the three to confess before charges are brought forth.
Does anyone think that one or more of the three remaining suspects will tell all before being officially charged and brought to trial?
Does anyone think that one or more of the three after being charged will confess to some role, say less than actually doing the stabbing and assault, and plead for a lessor sentence deal or for a temporarily insane from ingestion of drugs deal?

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Thanks pinecone. If you change your profile to absolute time, choose your own time zone, you have the time stamp. Then do a refresh (or reload) on the comments and the time stamp[s appears. It gets better by the moment, No need to comment now Steve, I like this new software.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Another example:
Pinecone —Today 09:26 PM with 1 point

Thanks for the link, Viv. The verbal exchange about the party explains how the judges concluded Meredith had not met Rudy before November 1. He thinks he's smart enough to get out of this mess.
I agree about the diary chunks. I dread those thrice-translated puzzles."

What is the time stamp in your browser for this post, Pinecone. Are we in sync. I am set on CST/USA absolute time.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Robert:

Trying clicking (or right clicking for a new tab) on your icon next to your name in a post. That will take you to your profile page. Then select settings in upper right. Scroll down in that page till you see time stamp. Then select stamp you wish. Then back to the comments page and do a reload.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Thanks. I didn't see this helpful post until I figured it out myself after a decent night's sleep.

xin · 2 years ago

The Latest and Greatest--(thanks for corrections)
(chech/each revise is a chance for error)

Timeline: November 1, 2007 (Friday) rev.3

1300 AK & MK at their apartment
1400-1500 MK left
1700 AK, RS went to his apartment (per AK)
1745 Polish student saw Knox & Sollecito at the Italian's house
1800 AK, RS left her apartment (per Rafe)
“He was with AK until 1800 when they had both left RS apartment to go into the centre, around
2030 to 2100 RS went home, smoked; had dinner
2030 AK text message from PL
2030 – 2100 (AK “left him [RS], saying to him that she would go to Le
Chic, meet friends while he returned to his house”) “… left the
house telling Sollecito that she was going to work, [but she], she was at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana.”
2038 RG arrives (acc to RG)
2038 PL cellphone pings in the area of MK’s house
2040 Polish student sees AK leave RS’s;
AK and RS were at RS's flat at this time and before.
2040 AK and RS cell phones turned off
2043 AK seen on CCTV entering her house
2046 Meredith arrives eight minutes after RG arrives (acc to RG)
2050 RS chops up button mushrooms with his knife, and he and AK stir
fry them.
2100 [[“It was [about] this time that either RS or AK turned off their
mobile phones, which [were on] again the following morning.” “All
three [includes PL] suspects have a gap in cell phone use for two hours around the time MK was raped and killed, according to the judge's order. PL changed his cell phone number the day after the murder.”]]
2100 AK claimed to meet PL at B-Ball courts and [return] to her house.
According to the judges, between
21.10 and 5.32 of the night of the crime "is not any human interaction.
@ RS apt
2100 MK leaves friend’s house to return home
2215 call made from MK's mobile to a service advising phone credit
balance
2229 First recorded receipts at Le Chic
2230 “Alessandra Formica, a police witness, said her partner was almost
knocked over by a black man running away from scene” (She is part
of the mystery couple/perhaps DNA, heel print in MKs room)
2300 RSs father called, no answer
2300-0100 RS claims he’s on Internet at his home

xin · 2 years ago

Latest and Greatest, part due



November 2, 2007 (Saturday) rev.3

0100 AK at RS’s apt
0200 Passers-by report loud voices from AK/MK home
0532 Internet activity noted at RS’s computer
0830 Bleach receipt (supplied by the market)
0915 Bleach receipt (supplied by the market)
1000 (per RS) Woke up at RS’s in morning
1030 (per RS) AK returns to her house to wash; took empty plastic bag
1100 (per AK) she was back at her house
1130 (per RS) AK back at RS’s house; worried—door open
Back to AK’s together. AK opens door w/keys; went in together. Blood in bathroom.
((AK and RS buy newspaper (?)))
1135 MK's clothes are in the washer
1235 postal police arrive; hear washing machine cycling off.
RS talking to his sister when cops arrive
1251 RS calls112/cops
1254 RS calls police again
1300 AK/MK housemate Romanelli arrived


this thing loses formatting...another oops mr software developer

Pinecone · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

xin · 2 years ago

I have a strong brand preference for Pacific Daylight/Standard TIme. Like planes. TIme current when one's feet are planted. Be nice to have the area/state/zone of origin noted with our label

squiggs--you are so nice to be assisting in the GUI development of this Very Unfinished so-called Web 2 product. thanks.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

sparrow: The big fear is though, that the police would rather prosecute RHG than look for this other type person....If RHG is not guilty, he is a very easy fall guy, very easy to frame.

Yeah. If he's not guilty, why'd he leave his DNA all over the victim and the crime scene? There's even more evidence to be announced.

Rudy, who was too lazy and bullheaded to adapt to the lifestyle of his adopted family, has the balls to claim he was framed because of his race. What a loser. He deserves everything he's got coming.

fran · 2 years ago

There a lot of people who wo0ld behave the same way and I don't think that is attached to the word "loser"

Squiggle · 2 years ago

If anyone (Steve Huff?) is in touch with the disqus developers, please let them know that when sorting by 'Newest' in the 'Threaded" view, it would be vastly preferable to show the threads with the most recent replies first, rather than the most recent first post. As it stands, very active threads that have been going for hours or days won't even appear on the first page. This is a major reason to avoid the threaded view at present. It would also be good if threads could be collapsed.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I think Disqus should send you a big fat check for being a great beta consultant! Or at least give you some free founders stock options.

RobertM · 2 years ago

CANCEL Time Stamp Decision post just below. I defer to Squiggle's professional expertise, and also to having us all use the correct functions here at this site. I would have edited the post out of existence but with the reply, it seems I've lost the edit function.

My concern is FINDING things to use the link function. And, again, as an end-user, I don't want to think about anything more complicated than click L or R on the link. But as I've followed Steve through the winding paths of Mirkwood that he's led us through, I will push on.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Thanks, RobertM, but why wasn't this a reply to your post http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

That would be the appropriate way to position it (especially since "just below" presupposes that your reader is using the same sort and view preferences as you).

RobertM · 2 years ago

AS the Time Stamp Decision was a Main Post and I headed the idea in bold, better to place the Cancel Post in the same position, rather than as a "subordinate clause". Higher immediate visibility.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

But no link. The logic of this new site is all about links.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I sympathize completely with you Robert. For Squiggle, an obvious expert in software engineering it's a breeze. But I am grateful for his guidance in that it will help ease my learning curve here (it's still clumsy for me) and support Steve's decision to make the change without complaint.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

@ Disqus developerers: Yet Another Fault: When in the threaded view, if there are multiple responses to a post at the same 'level', they should be sorted oldest to newest. At present you seem to be doing the opposite. This means that, if someone has given a clarification, it can often be missed by others who see the post and the most recent follow-ups.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Actually these are disqus servers we are on so their programmers have access to the forums as well as the software. Maybe the negative point accumulations are their way of saying thanks to our very astute critiques of their design. *lmao*

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Did I miss any evidence points on AK that points to her being at the crime scene at or after the assault/murder. See http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

I intentionally left out the knife with both MK and AK's DNA on it, which is circumstantial, but pretty strong circumstantial evidence that would also need to be explained away. RS's explanation was pretty weak itself in that he pricked her hand/finger. But did I leave anything else out? Thanks.

Anon68283 · 2 years ago

Back on fingerprints

Anon68283

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

with respect to the question: "is [it] possible to leave a fingerprint on another persons skin[?]"

Apologies for being too cryptic in the initial post. The relevant point is that to forensic specialists it is well known that "latent fingerprints [are] recoverable for up to a few days, and in some instances up to two months on human skin," per this recent article at forensicmag.com. Separately, patents have been issued on techniques for doing so in the US and other countries over a decade ago.

It's also worth noting that the 2006 article reaches some conclusions and offers a bibliography. The "problem" this article addresses in particular is extending the time forensic labs have to recover prints from skin, from days or weeks, to several months; reporting on its findings for techniques that hold promise for doing so 3 months out --- but we know that such extensive time frames for recovering prints from a body, long after the crime, is really not the problem, or particularly relevant, in the Meredith Kercher case.

William C. Sampson, formerly of the Miami-Dade Police Department, developed techniques for recovering latent prints from human skin years ago, in working on serial killer cases. He went on to further popularize the interest in and the value of doing so in the 1990s, and onwards, through the International Association for Identification (IAI), amongst other LEA venues in the field. Prior to 1978, such techniques were highly sought after by investigators, particularly in homicide cases, but had only been successful under experimental conditions. It's claimed in the industry press that advancements have resulted in the identification and conviction of at least 39 perpetrators and that refined techniques, Sampson's and those put into use since, can yield a near 100% success rate, as opposed to the one in 15,000,000 in getting good prints previously. The issues now concern not if it's possible, but rather the conditions for doing so, such as the amount of time that has elapsed before the forensic techniques are applied, preservation of the prints on the skin, etc. Since the late-1990s techniques for lifting prints from human skin were entered into various LEA procedures manuals, and the pursuit of better techniques remains active.


State of Florida v. Stephen William Beattie (1978)
The first case on record where a latent print was developed on a homicide victim's skin, identified to a suspect, and introduced as evidence in court.
http://www.fprints.nwlean.net/s2.htm

See also:
Detecting and Preserving Latent Fingerprints on Skin
by Lt. Robert J. Garrett, CSCSA, FFS,
Supervisor, ID/Technical Services Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office, New Jersey
In The Criminalist, Summer 2001
http://njiai.org/Criminalist901.PDF

Now, aside from this (and the issuance of patents... ), there are many other accessible sources that could also be cited... but it suffices to say that not only is it possible, but that the technology is available and known to fingerprint/forensics specialists. This only answers that question (posed in the threads here earlier).

There are other questions, of course, for example, on the issue of detectability of prints, are there other factors or clues that would lead a forensics team to make the attempts to recover latent prints from a victim's skin?


Did the police in this case attempt to use any of these techniques? Did they recover usable prints? Did they then make a match? Some have claimed that yes, they did so. Moreover, the claims suggest that the prints at issue, to begin with, were readily detectable, i.e., they were not so latent. But what value to place on these claims, at present, is not so clear.

Another consequence you could draw relevant to some other suppositions and questions aired in these threads: if the police did lift prints, then at least one perp in this case was not using gloves, at least not in the course of the assault. (But maybe gloves came into it later? direct contact with so much bleach over time can get pretty nasty.)

Finally, further on fingerprints (and all the bleach and cleaning) --- a most interesting question is where they are not (pervasively), and why. Where are the rest of the fingerprints throughout the rest of the house, a shared house (of students! no less), starting with AK's bedroom and the kitchen?

Anon68283

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
will read this later.

but still, unless of semen, (saliva??), hairs & fngernail scraping. You can not lift foreign DNA from a persons 'skin'?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

We leave epithelial cells everywhere we go. A good place to swab for foreign DNA would have been the finger mark bruises on the victim's throat/face. I don't remember that investigators said they found fingerprints on the victim. As I recall, they claimed finger marks were visible and they opined that those marks were the same "size" as AK's. However, fingerprints would be strong evidence against whoever left them.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

That is exactly what I recall in the initial press reports covering this subject. And I haven't seen any follow up (again?) on this topic in the press. So much for thorough journalism and follow up. "If it ain't new and current, it ain't news"

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Anon68283, thanks for the thorough and very technical updates. There is no doubt that if they recovered prints from MK facial, neck or any other skin area that they are going to be damning evidence to whomever prints they are. The question to ask is what prints? Does LE and their labs have some prints from her skin or not. We do not know and so far they are not saying. anything at all about any such prints.

Likewise what ever happened (4 weeks ago now) to the hair in MK hand evidence. That hair was going to tell us possibly who the killer was. It went into a dark hole. No comment from LE or leaks about it. Doesn't take 4 weeks to compare hair samples. I speculated at the time that the hair in her hand could very well have been her own as she had just past shoulder length (long) hair and in a desperate grasp on her own neck could have clutched and torn her own hair while trying to stem her own bleeding. Another suggested piece of evidence we need to hear a conclusion on.

And finally, as has been posted earlier there were ~120 prints found in the house, upstairs and downstairs, something like ~80 that did not belong to the tenants, including AK (my numbers may be incorrect here, someone please correct me for accuracy). So they found no prints of AK except on a cup. See my post at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
item # 4
regarding this lack of AK's prints around the house as only circumstantial evidence and not hard forensic evidence and an explanation for that. It may look suspicious but it doesn't make for guilt in itself. In addition, one has to remember AK hadn't been living in her flat, she had been living at RS's flat almost constantly for two weeks everyday, going back and forth to her own flat only to get a change of clothes and laundry most likely. Who here, especially women didn't do just the same when they were young and had a new intense love affair? So if she cleaned her room previously, why would there be many, if any, prints at all of her. The other roommates appeared quite attentive to cleaning the common areas that AK seems uncooperative to do her share. Kitchen, bathrooms. So AK only had to clean her room. Defense attorney: She did clean her own room earlier that day when RS was over with her.

Just my take on the evidence so far until we get some really "solid forensic" evidence that AK was there at the time of the murder or immediate there after, like they have on RG.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... coyotewaits

hmmm, so she unpacked, touched the wardrobe etc but then cleansed her room?

She did her clothes washing in her student digs. Did she do her studies there?

I DO think that it's suspicious her fingerprints were not found in her room.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

One of the things that is really great about this thread is all the research and work posters are putting into it analyzing this crime. I am learning so much I never even imagined I would have had an interest in learning; about forensics, law, Italy, psychology, myths, religions, et. al. Thanks for everyone interests, posts, links, and summaries/organization (xin).

BeenHereAllAlong · 2 years ago

One paper's version of the laundromt story was that a homeless person was seen stuffing cothes from a plastic bag into a machine--so maybe he found clothes the killer discarded.

Regarding the mystery dna, I think, think, think they said it was on tissues covered with Meredith's blood, found outside. So maybe as Rudy ran, he grabbed some used tissues off the ground to wipe the blood off himself.

xin · 2 years ago

but RM, we are the start-up developer's lucky day.
they are in the heady "we'll be listed on NASDAQ" stage
been there done that
they launched an unfinished product.
they WILL be schooled.
memories of the downside of start-up tech PR.

Good Morning. It is 11:40 PDT.
(for a minute I saw time stamps but it vaporized)
still no way to *save* this thread.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Xin, are you still on the wrong page? You need to be at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

At that page, saving the forum works just fine, as it is not paginated. I just tested it.

Also, as has been pointed out several times, the absolute timestamps appear once a post is about an hour old. Scroll to older posts, and you will see them (so long as you have set your preferences accordingly). Shorter timestamps remain relative. I think that's a dumb choice, but that's how it is at present.

muddy · 2 years ago

Pure speculation but if the 'extreme sensation' RS sought that evening was a far stronger drug than dope ie Class A in the UK - 7 years for possession IIRC, that would explain RS' and AK's memory loss and PL involved or not situation.

xin · 2 years ago

(edit: forgot to put time: ll:55 am in Cupertino)

muddy: not muddy at all.

i gave you a point but it keeps disappearing.
somebody is phunking around with your points.

imuna send an email to the children at disqus. I HATE that name.
I'd like to take credit for spotting a start-up due to the name contrivance.
i used to tell clients do not start off with a stupid company name
some listened, some didn't. guess who stayed in business.
(so much for Xaos Tools)

xin · 2 years ago

((gotta LOVE these guys. Here is their company backgrounder. would not fly in the big days of silival 95-00, but they weren't born yet.))
Oh yeah, it's 12:09 PM in Frisco.

About

Disqus is brought to you by Big Head Labs, a super-cool new startup based in San Francisco, CA. BHL was founded by Daniel Ha and Jason Yan, two buddies committed to helping make the web more awesome. Be sure to read our blog for updates and the occasional behind-the-scenes look.

Read the FAQ or take the tour to learn more about Disqus. Like any good FAQ, all the questions were just made up (but still helpful).

We're still very much in beta and feedback powers us, so let us know what you like, what you don't like, and what you'd like to see.

Contact the team: all@disqus.com
Press and Business: biz@disqus.com
Support and Feedback: help@disqus.com

xin · 2 years ago

Time in Portland OR 12:13 pm.

CW: I don't think I've sent you your invitation to the resource blog.
Need you. (ca94306@gmail.com)

damn, i hope puzzler, damian and rob come back soon. i've made the
adjustments to address their sIncere concerns about the blog.
it's secret, which (in general) i detest, but agree for now that they are right.
they may be trying to hack their way to this blog now as we type.

xin · 2 years ago

12:15pm in Hollyweird


er:
it means a lot to see you here.
abide a whyle.

yes. we have a start-up on our hands who launched before their software was done.
I'm sending those geeks an email to request they go through thisthread. cherry-pick the
stuff they didn't think of and make a REAL faq and a REAL "welcome to our messed up but awesome product. could you all please just pitch in and help us untangle the bad shit."

xin · 2 years ago

time: 12:34 Ensenada, Mexico


Ok just sent disCuss the *come to jesus email*
(step away from the Espresso Machine)

Loz · 2 years ago

coyotewaits & pinecone, just wanted to make a general point.

Crimes were solved long before forensics.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"Crimes were solved long before forensics."

Yeah, and people are released from prison every day based upon evidence discovered through DNA testing.

Loz · 2 years ago

not EVERY day!

xin · 2 years ago

12:40 PM in The OC

Loz: Exactly, and all crimes are circumstantial.
I'm giving you a point.

Loz · 2 years ago

:D thankyou

xin · 2 years ago

12:43 PM Rockingham Drive
DNA meant nothing to the OJ jury.

xin · 2 years ago

(daniel: pls check your watch for time ;) )

daniel ha is here. he is one of the founders of this software.
shall we welcome daniel.
HELLO DANIEL

seattleite · 2 years ago

Annarbor wrote: AK was "self assured and cunning, capable of violence"

Apparently they are not concerned about the safety of the three other prisoners with her in jail (though I suspect one or more in the jail is a cop or an informant.) Sounds like translation + boilerplate bail denial language.

Have never seen any report from her lawyers or the prosecutor that she has undergone a psychological exam...except at this blog.

Loz · 2 years ago

Oh please, dangerous prisoners are put together all the time.

aren't they?

annarbor · 2 years ago

I am unaware of courts in the US making strong prejudicial statements regarding a suspect without some factual reference...The prosecuton is one thing, but i expected the court to stay more neutral at this stagee.

Just a difference in systems, i suppose.

Loz · 2 years ago

Anyway, seems they are genuinely concerned about RS violence, he is isolated. He has seen a psyche.
Maybe AK is just like his smitten 'accomplice'.

ALSO realised said something dumb about RHGs gashed hand, it could have been from holding a knife the wrong way, as it'd only have 1 sharpened side. Still, it's defo not a piece of glas IMHO

seattleite · 2 years ago

Loz Wrote: Do you think AK was there that night at the time of the murder?

Maybe...ever been somewhere so stoned out of your mind or drunk that you really where not sure who was there or what they were doing. I have.


* What was she doing during the murder (your guess?)

If she was there...she may have been in the kitchen with her fingers in her ears so that she didn't hear the screaming (sorry this is an ugly murder).

* What did she do that night/morning after the murder(again your guess)?

Night: Left (if she was there) and stumbled back to a safe place (RS house) Morning: Wandering around trying to do the things she had to do and being confronted with a horrible (dream?) and seeing evidences of something really weird and wrong and trying to make sense of it.

Sorry without other evidence, that is the best I can speculate and I know it is not much.

Loz · 2 years ago

Thankyou for answering. So. you think she was there. But stoned fast, since she was on CCTV at 8:40-ish walking, not too mashed to be using a key. But stoned after she arrived. I could go with that.

muddy · 2 years ago

OK, I'm with Seattleite here. Bit of experimental d&d at Uni... it's not exactly unusual.

Loz · 2 years ago

OK I will too.
what I can't accept is that RS & AK hav all the same memory gaps, yet all the same memory's. Apart from at points where they make the other look guilty.
eg: RS: at 11-ish AK came back,...
AK: at 11-ish RS came back, had blood on his hand...

seattleite · 2 years ago

Loz:: "cal to RGl"

The cell phone records and the testimony of the proper telecon employee to explain how records are kept (I have seen them and it doesn't look like your phone bill) will establish that.

If it happened I would guess she was looking for more dope or knew Rudy was in the area that night (maybe bought drugs from him earlier?) and wanted to see if he knew what was going on.

Idle speculation on my part.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

I was thinking about Rudy's friend who helped police with that phone call. I was wondering if he stepped forward on his own, or if police found him some other way. For instance, we haven't heard anything about calls that might have been made on the cell phones Rudy ditched. The only statement I've seen is that police talked to one person and determined that person to be of no importance to the investigation. I'm wondering if that person was the friend.

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
could be that it was put in the press about calls between AK and RHG to make RHG less suspicious about his friends phonecalls.

However, that's illogical, as RHG would have known that AK hadn't text/called him after the murder. So, it seems like she did. Even when considering the loose term of 'friends' contact with RHG, as it was right after the body was 'found'.

DLW · 2 years ago

"They don't know who killed my friend Meredith".
Yes Amanda we pretty much know that Rudy was involved in the killing of your “friend” Meredith . I also imagine you’ve heard some of the evidence against him. Unless I'm missing something: I haven’t sensed any sort of outrage, on your part, towards this man.

meman · 2 years ago

annarbor....................I would think,That if the calls were made....it would have been Rudy calling Amanda......................Trying to figure out if Amanda knew anything in the way of the police investigation at the time.....

Loz · 2 years ago

Amazing that he rang her just after the police discovered the body.

meman · 2 years ago

Loz ...it probably didnt take long for the media to show up after the discovery.........I would imagine that type of crime doesnt happen very often in that city.......so their media was on it pretty fast..........................So I am sure everyone in that city probably had some type of knowledge within an hour or two....................Rudy included

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

probably? Maybe RHG has RSS news updates on his mobile!

annarbor · 2 years ago

Nothing we read in the paper can be taken at its word, but it was written that AK placed the call to RG, very soon after the bodt was discovered. It was also reported that she madw a few calls to RG immediately before the murder. Take it for what you will.

xin · 2 years ago

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/articolo.php?id=1533...
(dec 16.07)
Pretty soon: 9:30 a.m. on Monday
all apologies for google translate:

Meredith, Amanda decided to respond to pm
Amanda Knox

PERUGIA (16 December) - Who knows if this will be a good one. Amanda Knox is ready to its nth esternazione. The American girl suspected of the murder of Meredith Kercher [is] to answer questions that are posed by the public prosecutor Giuliano Mignini tomorrow morning. A leaked to the news is one of his defenders, the lawyer Luciano Ghirga. The interrogation is scheduled to 9.30 in prison huts.

.. Knox initially denied being present in the house where [s]he was staying with Meredith English when the [girl] was killed. The night before, however, the firm has told investigators that she had been at home at the time of the crime but before the court of review has again denied that fact. In prison [are] still Raffaele [Sollecito] her boyfriend at the time of the crime and Rudy Guede, the Ivorian boy, arrested in Germany after his escape after [the murder]. And the father of Raphael had invited the girl to "say something useful".

Loz · 2 years ago

I am confused. AK requested this?? before or after knowing the date of MKs funeral?
Is RS being interviewed too?
Is it just a result of what RHG has said about her?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

OT: I have changed my posting routine because I find it easier to use the "reply" link. The posts still appear in flat mode, as I prefer. The advantage is that I don't have to quote the comment I'm replying to. If you see a post that doesn't indicate to whom it refers, hover your cursor over that user's icon and select "parent" to view the parent post that spawned the reply.

Also. I know about not ending sentences with a preposition, but sometimes I have to.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

OK, I admit I just couldn't resist. I went back and counted all the points next to my posts. My total was +49. Mostly 1 (which is what you receive for just making a post or a reply), then 0 (meaning someone docked me down a point), several 2 (i didn't count the individual counts of each level), and a couple 3's (hey thanks)and no - minus at all, in that order. Anyway the only conclusion I can come to is the software is not totaling points in the point box when you hover over a poster icon. My current total being -23. I also just spotted Loz a couple posts and have watched her total go from a +35 to a +18.

geeeshhhh...... and I was starting to get comfortable with my paranoia and couldn't wait to hit a -99 to see if the counter rolled over *lol*. Anyway, more seriously, I'm ignoring this points system also, as others have likewise thought little of it. Even if they fix it. But if anyone wants points just wave a :-) towards me, I will be happy to give my one click to you every time. ; - ). Anyway I just thought I would update you as to what it isn't doing. I'm not bothering to tell or email daniel at disqus.

seattleite · 2 years ago

CW: ignore the points...nobody is going to come out a winner in this case. If someone changes the content of your posts that would be a problem but you do not need any stinking points.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Thanks seattleite, I certainly was not being serious, guess my sense of humor is less than apparent. But on a serious note I really do hope that this case gets resolved in a fair and non-corrupted and non-biased trial in Italy with a unequivocal determination and guilty verdict for the person[s] responsible for this crime so that Kercher family and friends and the citizens of Perugia can find some closure.

Loz · 2 years ago

who cares about points, they come and they go.

xin · 2 years ago

Steve said he doesn't care about the points.

xin · 2 years ago

oh well, i've got -45 points according to my hovercraft, even 0 for posting about the hearing tomorrow. cw it's about 45 minues ago.

9:30 a.m. in the prison hut.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Your now at -27, and I didn't do anything. I can only give you 1. *laughs*

xin · 2 years ago

((CW: well, i see you earned 0 for helping me along.
there is a hater here.

thanks.))

Loz · 2 years ago

Mushrooms are good little timers apologies:
well they are in that you can say a person died within 1/12 hours of eating the mushroom, not when it was eaten. Not one of the things that determined TOD. soz *red faced*. thanks for being polite & not pointing it ou. In future though, when I am being slow, please poin it out.

I guess they can rely on TOD, and people here putting the mushroom snack in their timelines just after nine, from RS & AKs statement about 11pm. And also, the 'black' man running away from the scene.

I guess, reguritation happened early?
The snack must have been earlier than in the current timelines people here have offered?
Finally, it took a time for MK to die.

I do wonder about 2am though.

RobertM · 2 years ago

The POINTS SYSTEM issn't working either.

xin said she was at -45. When I checked 6 minuteds after her post, she's at -27. ?????

seattleite is at +27 or so.

This is totally screwy, i.e. not related to a direct action, such as clicking the up or down buttons. I've done that and there's been no change in the icon total.

If they don't work simply, TURN THEM OFF.

Loz · 2 years ago

i think people are upping the points per post. espcially if someone is in the minus.

RobertM · 2 years ago

And the buttons to the left are sometimes the Same, i.e. I went to give AndyT a point using the up button, but as I hovered over it, the little text icon said Rate Down. So I checked the the lower one and it said also Rate Down. I checked the one's next to meman and they read correctly.

I RateDown this site's functionality a whole 100 points. Hey, danileha, this ain't "fun", this is bloody work. Haloscan may be bulky to use when too many posts, but it was simple simple simple. And then there's this issue with all the white space mostly on the Right. Did you guys have a competent graphic designer look at this layout before you rolled it out? Or how about just a regular joe off the street, like a good focus group facilitator could organize for you? Or anybody in marketing at all? Huh? Please look at all of Squiggles posts from yesterday.

Loz · 2 years ago

I've been rating people up.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I am not giving anyone any points either up or down, and that is the truth, so help me, er uh well so help me. Ok, everybody. Please confess now as to whether you are messing with the point arrow tabs. Set an example for AK for her hearing tomorrow and tell the absolute truth, nothing but the truth, so help you, Steve, owner of this blog. As meman says so succinctly: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Welcome back Robert. If you haven't caught up in your reading, one of the founders from disqus/kisqus software joined us today, actaully he was looking for you, no kidding. So we clued him in on some corrections. Nobody voted for correcting the points systems he was adamant that it was all in our control. See http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Unfortunately they can't be turned off by the user. Ha Ha! dang it!

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hey Robert, I was at -29 and now I am at +62 so I know that you've been lurking in the background supporting me. *lol*. The totals do not work, confirmed. Either do the individual displays all the time. So who cares. Everyone gets 5 points from me immediately from me, 10 from xin, 16 from meman just to post a new or reply post. In the meantime the disqus/kissqus software get a -250 beta points for each day that their software continues to be buggy. *Cheers*

xin · 2 years ago

Sorry if this is a repeat. The scrolling thing kills my hands, and there is extra button-use here.
Anyhow, seems that Rudy changed his story and now he saw two killers --one in a white hat, and that Amanda was not there. She's the one who likes hats, does she wear a hat in the cctv? I'll check. Meredith asked him to stay after he ripped off her bloody bra, now with his dna near the clasp at the back.

http://tinyurl.com/2el4u6
(The Telegraph UK Dec.16.97)
excerpts:

Mr Guede is reported to have told Judge Matteini: "On the day of Hallowe'en, Meredith and I saw each other at the house of some of our Spanish friends. ..."

The judge asked him to describe the friends' house, because his account clashed with that of Miss Kercher's friends, who said she was dancing in a club at midnight.

He apparently was unable to furnish a description, and contradicted himself several times. At the end, the judge asked him: "Are you aware that this is not a credible story?"
...

Giuliano Mignini, the chief prosecutor, said that Mr Guede's story is "full of holes and contradicts the facts of the case".

In addition, Mr Guede has now changed his tale again to say that there were two killers in the house. He said one man was wearing a white cap with a red stripe and had brown hair.

He said: "I fought with him and even threw a chair. I tried to stop Meredith bleeding with several towels and she pressed my hand as if to say: 'Don't leave me.'" He said that after he had struggled with the first man, a second one said "Let's go".

He has denied that Amanda Knox, 20, Miss Kercher's housemate and another suspect, was in the house at the time.

Loz · 2 years ago

=

Loz · 2 years ago

Xin "now he saw two killers --one in a white hat"

AK does wear a hat, and on the cctv IMHO she was wearing one, but it was more like a beanie. Like maybe the one she pulled over her face when she was arrested.

I read the hat of the killer he saw was a white 'cap' with a red stripe on it. so, maybe it's a baseball cap?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

For God's sake! How many times does it need to be said? That CCTV is from a journalistic reconstruction. It's not of AK. It's not from the night of MK's murder. It's from a TV show called 'Studio Aperto 1'. It was taken in daylight. The figure is a journalist (or helper). See http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... and the posts linked from there.

You can view the relevant bit of Studio Aperto 1 at http://news.centrodiascolto.it/video/id=211206/...

Loz · 2 years ago

soz

BeenHereAllAlong · 2 years ago

Funny how both descriptions alluded to Rafe and Amanda.

xin · 2 years ago

Exactly, AnnA

Meredith wasn't looking to lay a ne'er do well 20-year old drug dealer. It's absurd, grotesque.

Rhonda · 2 years ago

Wasn't there also a statement that Rudy had been at the house before...something about passing out or falling asleep on the toilet???? From a roomate or one of the guys downstairs??

annarbor · 2 years ago

Rhonda, this information came from the guys downstairs. I thik the guys had people over and Rudy was there. One of the downstairs tenents said that it was clear that Rudy was very attracted to both AK and MK. He was, however, so high that he passed out on the toilet. The guy has a history with toilets!

This is the kind of thing that MK would find disgusting, which again, makes it so implausible that she would be romantically interested in Rudy.

soozieuk · 2 years ago

Hey Rhonda, I remember that comment too. That he was so drugged up he fell asleep in the toilet! It's impossible to make sense of anything when the suspects appear to lie as a national sport!

xin · 2 years ago

AnnA: here's a recent TImes Online UK (dec 14.07) article that parallels your thinking:

http://tinyurl.com/2sc2lc
and one little excerpt:

In a memorandum written while he was in custody in Germany and leaked to Italian papers Mr Guede said that Ms Kercher had complained to him at their rendezvous at the cottage that Ms Knox was a "drugged up tart". Police believe she may indeed have used such words, but in the presence of Ms Knox herself as well as Mr Guede.

Loz · 2 years ago

Xin: I read it was a txt mssg, and I did wonder if RHG made AK aware if it. It does sound like an english expression "Drugged up tart". He is good at english though, and would know such expressions from other english students he's met. 'Drugged up tart' is something I would say, but I am working-class. But then, MK was said to be witty, so it does sound lkely she'd use he phrase.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Yes, thanks, xin.

this sounds real to me. The police theory discussed in the ariticle, combined w the withness statement about at leat 2 men running in opposite directions, substantiate the possibiliry that it started as a drug deal, but that Rudy either invited others, or more likely owed his supplier. Perhaps he mentioned that he'd be collecting from AK that night and could in turn pay him.

xin · 2 years ago

yes rhonda i remember that one...he'd been at the house before
i gotta get more of the news pages i saved orgzanized and up

xin · 2 years ago

Meman yes, just that little snip. which i thought was interesting because it was reported that was what RG said when he was arrested: "I can't take it anymore." Now, this is a coincidence, but still striking to my pea-brain.

the police have more than we know, may we'll get new clues tomorrow if we hear what questions they ask foxy.

what we WANT, for one thing, is RS's Internet history for a couple weeks back before he met AK and then forward.

annarbor · 2 years ago

the inplication when that bit of conversation was revealed, was that it was a tipoff to police that AK and RS were culpable and struggling to deal with concealing the truth. "I can't bear it, (the lying). I can't do it anymore." The problem, though is that that snippet in another context could be, "I'm so shocked and horrified by this--I can't bear it, I can't do this anymore."

But, it was not long before they arrested the two of them...What evidence were they originally going on?

And, yes--It would be interesting to see RS internet history pre and post AK...

meman · 2 years ago

xin...probably right................I wonder if this is going to be another 5th amendment type hearing Monday

xin · 2 years ago

While every single person (geraldo who i love ---i know-- jeanine pirro and joe tacopino) knew far less about the case than any of us, it gave joe a chance to pitch amanda's parents on hiring him, which is probably a good idea. they need an Italian-American attorney with experience (as he has) in Italy. I'd take Joe or Angela Alioto (SF atty, daughter of the late, great Joe Alioto, former mayor of SF) over there (she's Sicilian and keeps close touch). She pulled off an amazing feat of plugged-in-ness in Italy a few years ago, helping out a mutual friend who was an Archbishop at the time, during the funeral of the late Pope Paul 23.

Also, the reporter for Geraldo in Rome said the hearing is tomorrow, which we know, and --the news--that Tuesday more forensic people go back into the House of Horrors for another look-see.

RobertM · 2 years ago

I'll take 'em both, but the Sicilian goes point.

On, and just WHAT was "friend" Archbishop up too? Or down too, eh? And has he gotten his red hat yet as the pay-off? [Me, cynical over RCC senior ecclessiastical affairs? How could I, knowing what I know about the1700 years of all-too-human & inhuman affairs of the Vatican? And Benedict's assistants are just so darn good-looking and young to be monsignors, yeah know.]

Rhonda · 2 years ago

Wow missed that, xin...Was Joe Tacopino really pitching for a job...isn't he defending Van Der Sloot? Guess he wants to see the world.

meman · 2 years ago

(off topic)..............Help...I was screwing around and uploaded the wrong photo for my profile.......Now I can't change it.............................No thats not me either , besides I am little taller

meman · 2 years ago

never mind.................somehow it just changed....sorry

xin · 2 years ago

rhonda: i felt the heavy vibe the last two times i've seen him. and this time he was all happy since Joran is loose again.

ps yes I went to the peterson trial, and just finished going to the phil-fucking-spector trial. i am going to put my lana clarkson last limo ride photo essay up on the blog. i shot from HOB SUnset, past all the icons of Hollywood (the sign, the observatory, captiol records, the hwood bowl, that they passed by that night) through his hood and house. He did it.

xin · 2 years ago

I think Joe's been to Italy before, he said he's had cases there. But Angela just kicks ass so if it were me, I'd hire her. She's got serious Family Contacts in the Palermo region. ;)

Loz · 2 years ago

eh oh, palermo. mafia central. Aren't they in need of some legal assistance at the mo' though, I heard a boss got arrested recently.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Just catching up with you all and apologize if this has already been posted:
Meredith suspect 'is ready to tell the truth'
An American student suspected of involvement in the murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia is prepared to tell the truth today, the chaplain at the prison where she is being held has said.

Amanda Knox, 20, will be questioned by Giuliano Mignini, the chief investigating magistrate in the case.
Father Saulo Scarabattoli, the chaplain, said “I have told her she must tell the truth and she listens to me.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

annarbor · 2 years ago

Hahahaha --anyone believe she will?

Loz · 2 years ago

but I thought she couldn't remember what the truth was!

annarbor · 2 years ago

Good point, Loz!! Maybe the Chaplain has worked A MIRACLE!!

Loz · 2 years ago

god/jesus will show her the truth didn't he say according to her diary. She already wrote in her diary that despite all what the chaplain said she couldn't remember and that she fell asleep/passed-out at the moment MK was murdered.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Yep, no doubt about it...Its gonna take a miracle. And miracles are notoriously hard to come by.

Loz · 2 years ago

In my cell was expecting a response cross my mind when there was a nun at my door . said I had patience because God knows everything and I have helped to remind me ... Everything has returned to mind as a flood, a detail after another, until the time when my head fell on pillow and I sleeping when Meredith was killed. "

from: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...

also, writing experience: Why I remember this is an experience that not many people have ever. Am not saying that it is happy that all that has happened has happened. Were I not my friend would have been killed and we all still live together at home

poor translation, sorry.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Sorry, got it Loz. Still drinking coffee waking up....

Loz · 2 years ago

Ah I hope she tells all, but I doubt it. Maybe I am biased but I get the impression she feels she has 'gained' something from what she terms an 'experience' a 'story'? but that's probably just me.
I hope she tells all, but you know, that bit about the nun & her memory failing at the crucial moment, or else she had memories but then fell asleep on her prison pillow?
Here's the original article, posted here by xin i think on 15th or 16th http://www.repubblica.it/2007/12/sezioni/cronac...
last para translated alternatively as: L'ultimo sheet. " All what have it is this pen and this is the mine last sheet... How will be after this story? I do not think that it go more in turn from alone of evening. I hope also of not to have fear of to be from alone. I do not want to to be traumatized from this. I want to live happy how I was and a more cautious bit. It imagine to to be grown a little'... Perhaps hour I know that the world is able to be really dangerous and also of more. And the world should believe me since this is the truth. It does not matter me what hung the police".

annarbor · 2 years ago

Loz, Is this excerpt from her diary? I've not seen it before...

Loz · 2 years ago

Yes, her lawyer(s) released 'chunks' of a new prison diary on 15th Dec, the day after the funeral of Meredith.
I don't think she'll write anymore from now on, I don't know. Poor translation.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Thanks, Loz. I'd like to read it.

Geeez, I have trouble falling asleep during a murder movie, much less a real murder...But AK is a very um...unusual girl. How's that for a euphamism?

I recall reading early on that, before she was arrested, AK was in touch with an Italian magazine of some sort. I believe she told them that the time wasn't right, but that she would talk to them about the murder at a later date. Her memory loss must've kicked in after that, and yes, if she squeaks out of this a free woman, I'd guess that she will find a way to make a buck off it.

Loz · 2 years ago

recall reading early on that, before she was arrested, AK was in touch with an Italian magazine of some sort. I believe she told them that the time wasn't right, but that she would talk to them about the murder at a later date.

probably conjecture :)

annarbor · 2 years ago

Probably so--and yet it seems like a shoe that might fit

Loz · 2 years ago

orig article: http://www.repubblica.it/2007/12/sezioni/cronac...
yep and the rock-climber left us on a cliff-hanger ... and then i fell asleep.
you know, what she was going to tell the press may have been lies anyway!
I think Italy has Double Jeopardy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy#Eu...
All members of the Council of Europe (which includes nearly all European countries, and almost every member of the European Union) have signed the European Convention of Human Rights, which protects against double jeopardy. The Seventh Protocol, Article Four, says:

No one shall be liable to be tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the jurisdiction of the same State for an offence for which he has already been finally acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal procedure of that State.

This specific optional protocol has been ratified by all EU states except five (namely Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain and the United Kingdom). [8] Those members states may still have the provision in their respective constitutions providing a prohibition against double jeopardy.

In many European countries the prosecution may appeal an acquittal to a higher court (similar to the provisions of Canadian law) - this is not counted as double jeopardy but as a continuation of the same trial. This is allowed by the European Convention of Human Rights - note the word finally in the above quote.

soozieuk · 2 years ago

Hmmm, now Knox wants to tell the 'truth' again.

I wonder what web of fantasy she'll spread this time. I like the way the priest says: "She listens to me". She might listen, but she doesn't take any notice like he thinks she does!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

annarbor · 2 years ago

Lawyers have reported that Amanda said that while Meredith was killed, she was at her boyfriend's house Raffaele urge. Their assistance "provided full cooperation," they said lawyers at the prison. "We are very calm and await the outcome hours of investigation", they added. After first denied and then admitted that it was present in the house when Meredith Kercher was killed in a new memorial, and then before the court of review, the young United States has so far rejected any responsibility.
--Google Tranlation from Today's Repubblica

http://www.repubblica.it/2007/12/sezioni/cronac...

So much for the truth

annarbor · 2 years ago

Here is the full google translated (Sorry) article:

Which continues to declare alien to murder of Meredith
Perugia, Amanda responds to pm
Six hours to say: "I am innocent"


Amanda Knox
PERUGIA - Amanda Knox said his new truth and reiterated his innocence to the judge of Perugia. In the afternoon, after more than six hours, Giuliano Mignini pm with his closest collaborators el'interprete have left the prison in Perugia Huts where he played a new interrogation of Amanda, accused of competition in murder and sexual violence against coinquilina English. The couple was heard in the presence of defenders, lawyers Ghirga Luciano and Carlo Della Vedova.

Lawyers have reported that Amanda said that while Meredith was killed, she was at her boyfriend's house Raffaele urge. Their assistance "provided full cooperation," they said lawyers at the prison. "We are very calm and await the outcome hours of investigation", they added. After first denied and then admitted that it was present in the house when Meredith Kercher was killed in a new memorial, and then before the court of review, the young United States has so far rejected any responsibility pri.

Morning had arrived in the prison and even Walter Biscotti Nicodemus Gentile, defenders of Rudy Guede and Luke Maori and Marco Brusco defending Raffaele urge.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Thanks for being on the spot with this. Its OK to write it up, rather than post the machine translation. You can change "it" to she or her, and of course Sollecito is not "urge" but a name. Then too the prison is outside of Perugia and is referred/named as Capanne Prison, though it seems the strict transaltion is "Huts"; perhaps its more formal title is "Perguia of the Huts" Prison, but if you just consistently switch it around as "Capanne Prison" we will know what it means.

My Babelfish version of one imporatn sentence reads at first pass:
In the course of the interrogation it has however confirmed that the night between first and 2 slid November, when Meredith Kercher came victim of a murder, it was to house of Prompt the Raffaele fiancèe.

This is fairly clear but spruced up would read:
In the course of the interrogation, she [Amanda] confirmed that on the night of the 1st and 2nd of November, when Meredith Kercher was murdered, she was at the house of her intiamte Raffaele Sollecito.

Now if "del fidanzato" can be used to mean "fiancee", I suspect here, becasue we've not heard anyt such thing before, it means "intimate" or more colloquially "boyfriend". There's got to be an Italian term for lover but perhaps fidanzato is it?

From this you can more easily see the issues of "understanding" between what the judge asks,the interpreter asks, Amanda replies in American, and the interpreter replies back, with her lawyers monitoring the word selection to be sure about meaning. No wonder these judicial interrogations take 6 hours (with bathroom breaks).

annarbor · 2 years ago

Yes, I think I've gotten to the point where I can translate the translation (Ha!) pretty well, but didn't know if I should presume to do so for posters here. Especially after we've had Belle, who spoiled us with such a wonderful translations. But perhaps I'll give it a shot next time.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

annarbor: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

The real criticism here of translation was not the Italian to English (well yes the online translators were bad, but belle saved us from that) but was the fact that AK wrote her diary in English and then when it was released (or leaked) it was translated into Italian and then translated back into English for the English press or for us even with Google translator or even belle. That is quite dangerous for English speakers who are trying to understand AK through her writings.

chrischris · 2 years ago

BeenHereAllAlong —1 hour ago with 1 point at 10:54am EST

LOL

Geez-- not much resolved when the developer/founder of this new place dropped by. too bad

chrischris · 2 years ago

I don't believe for a minute or even a second that MK would let this guy go near her. I bet that the police are really going to grill AK today about Rudy, that will be the focus.I

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=...
Suspect's DNA on Meredith Kercher's clothes
By Malcolm Moore in Rome
Last Updated: 2:55am GMT 17/12/2007

Fresh evidence against Rudy Hermann Guede, the central suspect in the murder of Meredith Kercher, has emerged after traces of his DNA were found on her bra.

.....The judge asked him if he had touched Miss Kercher's bra. He said he had put his hand underneath it. "It is suggestive," admitted Walter Biscotti, his lawyer. "But it doesn't change anything."

Rhonda · 2 years ago

BeenHereAllAlong —Today 06:38 AM with 1 point
Rudy's supplier is no more going to show up on a delivery than a Domino's district manager is going to deliver your pizza.

LOL so true BeenHere.....the mystery couple has turned into the mafiosa.

annarbor · 2 years ago

My thought was not that the mystery couple was mafiosa, but with Rudy being such a small time dealer, his Perugia connection would be relatively small town as well. Just a notch or two up in the hierarchy. And my thought was that he wanted to collect money that Rudy owed him I also speculated that they might be friends of Rudy's.

Robert M also speculated about the supplier in an earlier post, I'd give you the time and date, but...well, not sure how to do that in the new system. Here's a portion of his post:

RobertM:

"... the 3 of them (Rudy & the CSes) having already started in on Meredith, Rudy as the aggressor with the CSes as amused onlookers. This leaves Meredith threatening retaliation against Rudy AND the CSes for rape. (I really think that during the period 9 to 10:30, Meredith said something threatening to someone. Whether in response or provoked, who can tell?) Rudy's sperm/semen/spit/whatever is already on Meredith who has been really roughed up. The CSes are NOT people to fool around with. Perhaps Rudy's main distributors? If so, then likely not free-lancers but tied to whomever runs drug distribution around Perugia. Shall we guess? ("Leave the gun, take the canoli".) ]"

annarbor · 2 years ago

RobertM,

Hope you don't mind me quoting you : )

chrischris · 2 years ago

crobinator: the meredith dies text message turned out to be just related to a TV show inwhich that character named meredith could be killed--had nothing to do with this case at all.

meman · 2 years ago

coyote minus 1...you said it

chrischris · 2 years ago

Robert M-- Please tell me is this a new report your are refering to, if so where is it?

"Thanks for being on the spot with this. Its OK to write it up, rather than post the machine translation."

RobertM · 2 years ago

Yes, new report from the Republic's web-page. Click on link; its dated Dec 17 at the bottom.

RobertM · 2 years ago

http://tinyurl.com/yud39l

hre's the LATER, more detailed re-write, which looks real juicy, sorta, in Italina. A translate is needed as Main Post with nestings, no replies only.

chrischris · 2 years ago

LOL Meman--I won't say the word :-)

Belle-- Hi!

Is there anything in the news concerning Amanda appearance before the judge today? I refer to these papers since they were recommended. But not speaking Italian, it is very hard to judge.


http://www.ansa.it/
http://www.corriere.it/
http://www.repubblica.it/index.html
http://www.ilmessaggero.it/
http://qn.quotidiano.net/

Here's the local TV news, which seems to be the most detailed:
http://www.inforegioni.rai.it/umbria.htm

And here's the local paper's front page:
http://online.giornaledellumbria.../ 01_primapg.pdf

Today it says "the fourth man talks" and has some comments from Mr. Basketball, given "through his friends" to say that when he arrived in the house the damage had already been done. They had the story about the calls between this "fourth man" and AK this time yesterday, so they seem to have the best contacts (read "leaks").
Branston Tang | 11.20.07 - 1:50 am

Nana · 2 years ago

On-topic if the topic is the new site.

I like clean, easy-to-use, easy-to-read, easy-to-comment--and this new site isn't working well with those issues. Steve, your last home was clear-cut, to the point, and didn't need all these bells and whistles. The comment pages may have taken a bit longer to load, but very easy to navigate. I could note the commenter and time when I took a break from reading, and could then find where I needed to start reading the next time.

Rearranging the furniture might be okay, but changing homes? Sometimes the interior doesn't meet the expectations of the facade, and sometimes, less really is more.

Nana · 2 years ago

Addendum: I also know just enough basic computerese to be dangerous. :) I should not have to know the ins-and-outs of html, coding, macros, and who knows what else simply to take part in an internet discussion. I'll try some of the settings as suggested, and as a fan of Steve's since Planet Huff I am loath to give up on his web log, but it shouldn't take so much 'work' to be a fan.

Gripe over.

Thanks to all who take the time to find the news stories we rely on for new info about Meredith's case. I appreciate you very much.

chrischris · 2 years ago

From Loz translation:

What I could make out that was interesting to me were 2 issues:

1) AK never says that Rafe was on computer when she claims she was with him that evening.
2) The way AK described the crime scene, was in a way that only someone who was there that night would describe it, because her description did not represent what it looked like in the Am when she veiwed it with RAFE and police.

Loz · 2 years ago

yep. if the article is the truth. someone made a great post here about AKs english being translatd into Italian and back to English again. Great point, can't find the post. Just wanted to say that actually, without getting specific words it's quite easy to 'read' her & what she's all about (see recent exchanges between anabor & me). In any case, at least with her statement, the times/telegraph whatever it was, was working direct from english I think?

but, if the article is true, then obviously the police know more than AKs lawyers are letting on.

RobertM · 2 years ago

AMANDA CRIES from the The Republic re-write.

[I'm going to start this as a main post and then add the other sections as replies to keep the document as all ONE POST. Please do not reply to this post as a Reply. Thanks.]

[Headlines:]
Perugia.
New interrogation of the American student American.
She collapses. Does not answer contradictions and difficult points.
Then ribadisce [cries out?, babelfish couldn't translate] "Not there when Meredith died"
Amanda in tear in front of the pm the 6 hour in order ribadire the its innocence

onto next section

RobertM · 2 years ago

PERUGIA - Amanda Knox has told her truth and, between the tears, repeats her innocence to Presiding Magistrate Giuliano Mignini: in the homicide of Meredith Kercher, the American student maintains she was not involved. The new interrogation, conducted at Pavanne Prison, lasted six hours. It was carried out in the presence of herdefenders, lawyers Luciano Ghirga and Carl dello Vedova.

A question about Patrick Diya Lumumba, and the contestazione [meaning?] of some phrases she said during the 2 police hq [interviews] this past November, relating to the death of Meredith, are things that could not have been known if she had not been in the Via Pergola house on the evening of the homicide. Asked how did she learn of these matters, these two points brought on Amanda Knox's collapse during the interrogation. PM Mignini suspended the interrogation when the American student burst into tears, in obvious difficulty.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Again. Just what questions? What details? What is the press reporting? Is the press in the hearings? My guess is no, they are not allowed. If that is the case then the press is merely reporting what someone in (privy to the hearing) witnessed. Then that someone is leaking "their" summary impression of the Q & A of the hearing. Not good. Not good at all. We want and need public hearings so we know the questions, the answers and the details surrounding such.
Though this crime was committed in and will necessarily be adjudicated under the Italian CCP I am sticking with the USA position and CCP that all persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty and that all persons have a right not to self incrimination or any testimony forced or otherwise. Please, Mr. & Ms. Prosecutor, can the arrests and trial begin. If not, can you publish your evidence and testimony by all, police and suspects during interrogations and hearings. You obviously let your employees describe such to the media. Italians must love their system. It makes for better Soap Opera than the Hispanic Latin American soaps.

RobertM · 2 years ago

The role of Lumumba.
Amanda's nerves yielded in particular when they asked her why she had called [named?] Lumumba. The girl, as before hesitated, then she burst into tears. "The same identical attitude [behavior?] held [shown?] in Police headquarters when she stopped [talking?] there", emphasizes one who was present at the interrogation [humf. This one of the police ones?]. At that point, a suspension of questioning was taken to allow to Amanda to compose herself, but, when the PM tried to question her again on these points, she took advantage of the right not to answer.

RobertM · 2 years ago

The difficult moments.
The girl had other moments of difficulty in the course of the interrogations. For example - always being careful about how much we have been able to learn - when they asked her about something particular about how Meredith died, she had alla [described?] the position of the body and alls [described?] things about the room of the crime when speaking with some of the victim's friends, which she ought to have made signal [known?] in [to?] 2 police headquarters [interviews] in early November (four days del before firm [her arrest?]). In particular she could not have known [stated?] if [anyone?] not been present, that night, in Via Pergola.

[I've done the best I can with that last line, re newspaperese style, but the mix of tenses, and what I think is implied, is not clear. Can an Italian speaker reader please use the reply function here to straighten me out? Thnaks]

RobertM · 2 years ago

That evening I was from Raffaele.
Before the interrogation was suspended, Amanda repeated to the PM the version she had giv to Re-Examination Court judges. "That evening - I have said - I was at the house of Raffaele. We have saw a film, then we ate and made love ".

RobertM · 2 years ago

The contradictions.
Also in this phase of the interrogation, the American fell several times into contradictions, also in one such consideration was told how much [how much of what?] by the boyfriendPrompt Raffaele. He has, in fact, has always maintained he spent the evening on the PC, but of that, Amanda has not confirmed it with the magistrate. He has maintained that Meredith never had gone to Raffaele - but how then to explain that the knife found in house of Sollecito has the dna of the English student -

and to have known Rudy Hermann Guede just at the pub Chic, that one managed by Lumumba.

[Once again, th exact inflection and so meaning of the last sentence stups me. Is it Rafe did not know Rudy from Le Chic or has he said he did know him from there, or is she saying we knew Rudy from Le Chich & he's saying no, or what???]

RobertM · 2 years ago

The lawyers: "Full collaboration".
The lawyers seeking her release from jail, said she "fully collaborated. We are confident about the the outcome of the investigation ". After she had first denied and then admitted to being present in house when Meredith was murdered, she [Amanda] made a new memorial in front of the Re-Examination Ccourt, once again denying any responsibility in the homicide.

-- 30 --

Loz · 2 years ago

couldn't it just be that AK DID text with RHG, but that the role of Le Chic/PL is that it's how they were 'hooked up' in the first place?
and the police are onto this.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Many thanks RobertM. Excellence and R.E.S.T.E.C.P.

chrischris · 2 years ago

From Loz Translation and Robert M new link of story :

Additionally, I found it interesting that it is not pointed out about the text messages or phone calls between rudy and AK but rather:

"and have known Rudy Hermann Guede right in the pub The Chic, that run by Lumumba."

seattleite · 2 years ago

Thanks RobertM....excellence.

So this is the rub: "when they asked her about something particular about how Meredith died, she had alla [described?] the position of the body and alls [described?] things about the room of the crime when speaking with some of the victim's friends," Or what we call hearsay in the US and can only be unravelled with the direct testimony and cross on the stand.

This reminds me that earlier in the posts there was some expert on the case who said the kitchen knife was not the murder weapon and AK has inveighed herself into the details by her comments (at the police station) in essence playing junior crime fighter and making herself the center of attention to the others waiting to be interviewed.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Seattleite wrote: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Yes, something like what you describe above, obviously filtered by the leaker's bias to the press. Though I got the impression that the statements were not just third party (the friends) but that they were also made to the interrogators on the 2nd Nov. Then again, the interrogators could be lying through their teeth (do they video and/or audio tape completely all their interrogations?) and trying to coerce further incriminating statements (see my previous posts on what I think these hearings are all about). I'm with xin on this, in that AK, i.e., her father needs to hire a really great Italian-American attorney like the Alietto woman from SF, and have her get AK to just state her name, rank and serial number when she is hauled into these interrogations, erh, excuse me, non-public but drafty hearings.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Yes, of course CW and the interrogations. It just harkened back to this post from Branston Tang of a Porta-a-Porta tv show clipped below :

Ok - some beef on Porta A Porta on Italian TV - the criminologist Francesco Bruno is suggesting that AK is completely innocent - that she may have come home after the crime took place, and then for some reason got herself involved by exaggerating her role to the police. The same kind of syndrome where, after a high profile case, unbalanced individuals give themselves up as the perps, when they have nothing to do with the crime, but just want to feel involved. Make of that what you will. Oh, and the DNA on the knife won't stand up in court because it's not blood. Branston Tang | 11.19.07 - 6:16 pm | #

Loz · 2 years ago

It's called covering up for your boyfriend syndrome by cleaning and constructing a timeline with him. but personally, I think they're boh involved in some way.

annarbor · 2 years ago

I agree, Loz, that she knows way more than she is telling.

I think CW is right though, about how well this type of evidence will hold up in a trial. And I think his comparison to the OJ trial is very apt. I mean, we all know how well justice was served in that case.

Loz · 2 years ago

yes, I think she'll get away with her crime. RHG, what is he getting out of protecting her though? He could well land her in it. He's already admitted to being there.

ah, maybe she is innocent afterall.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

seattleite wrote: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Thanks for the old post from Branston, you are really good at pulling from memory critical links. He was good poster, haven't seen him in a long time. After assessing eight of these hearings, 2 for each suspect (4) over the these past weeks, the up one day and down the next of leaked evidence, etc., I no longer even have confidence in my own ability to try and read through the lines and decipher what could be real evidence and what could be planted statements of evidence. This crime is just a media circus around standard games that LE play in trying to solve high profile but complex criminal cases, especially murder because the latter tend to be the most profiled. I guess from any bias I might have, it just makes me dig in my heals and try to be emotionally patient hoping they will go to trial soon and we will find out (hopefully, will it be public?) what the evidence really is, what the facts really are. But the way this is going I think they will use their full year of hearings. I then feel bad that some closure for the Kercher's will be delayed even further than perhaps necessary. I guess it will be what it is, whatever.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Playing Junior Crime Fighter was a point made "somewhere" in Blog #3, linked to misunderstanding their English and them hearing what they wanted to hear from her bad Italian. Only proper course of action for her then was, (1) let me speak to the American consul, and (2) I'll answer questions only with a lawyer present. Being wet-behind-the-ears legalese-wise (whter responsible or not), she did neither of later two things, and in fact kept on JCF with the "alleged" confession.

Which we both know would be tossed by the presiding judge at the evidentiary hearing on whoa! so many grounds but first no Miranda warning. And these days, all this would be taped in the US, making the pressurized situation all too obvious. Re the Alaska Did She Kill Her Mom Blogger case of last 3 years. The tape confession was originally ruled in, then shown, then a split verdict, then the judge, having taken her original ruling under advisement (as in I want a do over on that decision) ruled it out, and so far Alaska hasn't gotten a retrial. May even have let that one drop on the basis of we kept her in jail for 2.5 years anyways and the tape is real iffy anways, and the two real idiot killers are in for Life anways, and maybe her brother won't ever speak to her again.

xin · 2 years ago

the American student has exploded to cry, in obvious distress.

love that: "exploded to cry"
today's Corriere (dec 17,07)
(http://tinyurl.com/2mhqax)
says as reported by others
-doesn't mention RS and computer
-and then something, it sounds like, she said in implicating PL that could not have been known had she not been in the house (of horrors) the night of the murder.

((the excerpt as translated by Google Translator:
Amanda would initially confirmed that the night of the murder she was at home, Raffaele [S] boyfriend. Amanda responded to questions from the magistrate for the whole morning. Then, however, [she] suddenly burst into tears and the [questioning] was interrupted for several minutes. A question about Patrick and protesting these few sentences in the police on November 2 last year and linked to the death of Meredith, who could not know if it had not been in the house [ofthe murder] on Via della Pergola [that] evening: these are, as has learned, the two points that have toppled Amanda Knox. An interrogation suspended by Giuliano Mignini pm because the American student has exploded to cry, in obvious distress."))

xin · 2 years ago

cw: I've not been able to find out if this trial (should it go to trial) is public.
Does anybody here know?
(thanks)

xin · 2 years ago

today's La Stampa http://tinyurl.com/26v2gk
today's repubblica http://tinyurl.com/yud39l
il messagero http://tinyurl.com/2hvaju
and i cited corriere della sera below
corriere http://tinyurl.com/2mhqax)

to "translate" (poorly but able to figure out the jist: http://tinyurl.com/22po6z

fran · 2 years ago

I'll translate the part about difficult moments"
I momenti di difficoltà.

During the questioning by the Police has had other difficult moments. For example - still according to what we have been able to apprehend - when some details about Meredith's death have been contested to her, details regarding the position of the corpse and the murder bedroom, to which she had referred in the Questura (Police headquarters) on the 2nd of November, talking with some victim's friends. These are details she couldn't know, unless she had been in the house in Via della Pergola that night.

Nel corso dell'interrogatorio, però, la ragazza ha avuto anche altri momenti di difficoltà. Ad esempio - sempre secondo quanto si è potuto apprendere - quando le sono stati contestati alcuni particolari relativi alla morte di Meredith, alla posizione del corpo e alla stanza del delitto, cui lei avrebbe fatto cenno in questura lo scorso 2 novembre (quattro giorni prima del fermo) parlando con alcune amiche della vittima. Particolari che non avrebbe potuto conoscere se non fosse stata presente, quella notte, in via della Perg

RobertM · 2 years ago

Much much better than mine. So the "particular details" were NOT spelled out by the leaker to the journalist. But note that her lawyers now more more about these inconsistencies. I'm supsecting that ILE has not given her Italina lawyers much if any of the details worked up from ILE's cross-refeencing preparations. Thanks again.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I am crying myself, really choked up!!! Because I am having a difficult moment.....believing!!!

Rhonda · 2 years ago

RobertM —11 minutes ago with 2 points
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo. The Nike is NOT Rafe's!!! And as the article references "a" bloody shoe print, it has to be the one AndyT imaged for us two blog ago. The One & Only . "Case Not-closed". Gotta split.

Where are you getting this from, Robert....that it is the Nike?? I was thinking they meant the high heel shoe print?????????

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

You could be right Rhonda, it might be the (bloody?) heel print not the nike tennie sole print. Who knows, we are crying because the media journalists are so very f------ up and the LE could care less as they stumble their way around this case. Going back to the crime scene 47 days later. Won't the bleech eating bacteria have wiped the place clean by then, calling in the microbiologists expert testimony now. LE is totally incompetent. That is what is now being reported.

RobertM · 2 years ago

See xin's post to which I am replying [put page into thread mode, oldest and scan down]. She quotes that the from link to the UK paper. Again it'll be easier to grasp if you are in oldest and thread mode, rather than oldest and flat mode.

Loz · 2 years ago

Like people here are guessing the ILE don't have much, and maybe they don't.
Yet, if they do have CCTV placing AK there at the time.
well maybe all this questioning is to expose her lies/character (more official than diary scribbles).

Or maybe it's to deduce the connection(s) between RHG / PL / Le Chic / AK.

Maybe even the police suspect she wasn't there at the time, but obviously want her to prove it by clearing up the confusion? - bit pie in the sky that.
-------
and i think that AKs laywers may have advised her well, but I don' tthink they can 'read' her well. I also think she's decided not to do herself any favours? possibly because she's either exremely guilty, or out of loyalty?
----------------

anyhow, what if she somehow knew about the high-heel shoeprint. was that immediately visible?
Or is it something you could have only known about from being there, and the beauty case, or the bloodied love letter.

anyway, probably not, they said it was regarding the body.

chrischris · 2 years ago

I replied to Belle comment by hitting reply I think. I can't find anything on this site anymore. Searching for Robert M imbeded translation of the latest report, no go.

anyway, I think that it is very interesting the report that they are still looking into the shoe print. Also, AK description not matching final crime scene. Is it heresay. I don't know, people told the investigators that is what AK said. How could they say what AK said, and the investigators know that this was how the crime scene looked originally, if it is not true. Seems like a slam dunk to me that AK was there before

seattleite · 2 years ago

Cause people hear things wrong and repeat them wrong all the time.

Loz · 2 years ago

but when they hit upon many true things, more than by chance or reasoning. then man, their 'source' had to have said it?

i feel i am being slow here...

seattleite · 2 years ago

You are not slow Loz.

First who knows if there is even an inconsistent statement. Just authorities leaning on her.

Secondly if she did say something which she shouldn't quote "know about" it could have been a dumb lucky guess if she was trying to be the detective. , I will bet when all the facts are out such as they ever will, a good amount of the thousands of posts which were just "speculation" will end up being right on the money factually speaking and yet none of us was there.

Loz · 2 years ago

what if she knew a few things though. was it plural.
not down to dumb 'luck' eh!

and those witnesses, well they must be telling the truth because there's absolutely no way they'd know.

I remember, before they were arrested, the ILE said MK was found in her bed, not on the floor.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Indeed Loz and that is what the lawyers will do at the trial assuming AK and RS are ever charged.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Reset format using your ptions or setting link, put mouse over icon and hit profile, then find optiosn link there.

Or, as I am using a public PC and it won't let me login as per normal, I used Squiggle's main blog link way above which gives me the dsqus.com format & then found the settings at the top right, settingit ofr Oldest and then THREAD. Switch out of flat to see my embeddeds and my other reply to you. This is about the best its going to be.

Loz · 2 years ago

are you saying that because those other (possibly english or extremely good english speaking) witnesses that told the police what AK had said to them, could not have physically (since they all have solid alibis) have known about these crime scene details on nov2nd themselves, and therefore AK definitely had to have relayed these details to them, as the police state, and that these witnesses are going to stand up in a court of law and say AK told them x,y,z, and that it's indisputably the truth

ah, so she WAS there?

Loz · 2 years ago

god hopefully, that'd stand up in court, no?

chrischris · 2 years ago

I agree Loz

DLW · 2 years ago

Some teevee commentators are making a pretty big deal of finding Rudy’s dna on Meredith’s bra clasp’s. Not only was it torn off , hardly a sign of foreplay, but the dna indicates his hand was bleeding at the time. I heard that he claimed he cut his hand when fending off the real killer. But now most likely it was injured when Meredith fought back.
Just another nail in his coffin.

Loz · 2 years ago

ah, that's cool. so he's done for.

so he DID cut himself!

chrischris · 2 years ago

ok now i can't find where people are talking, and I just did. I know that there are posts since 1 hour ago, Coyotewaits, I just saw them now I cant. I am very confused about this site. I am changing views clicking, doing everything, and getting nowhere :-(

Loz · 2 years ago

well, even if it screws up peoples views from flat to threaded, I'm permalinking the posts, and maybe quoting too :)

chrischris · 2 years ago

DLW: Not only was it torn off , hardly a sign of foreplay, but the dna indicates his hand was bleeding at the time. I heard that he claimed he cut his hand when fending off the real killer. But now most likely it was injured when Meredith fought back.
Just another nail in his coffin.

--Yup I agree. DO you have a link to where it states that Rudy was bleeding when he supposidely tore off the bra?

Now I think I got it together, i changed computers, and newest posts wasnt select. when I just wrote to Loz--I agree, I was referring to her post that it is not just hearsay how Ak described crime scene.

DLW · 2 years ago

Chrischris re: Rudy/Blood/DNA
I don’t see it in any news articles yet. But it was on msnbc news network. It was relayed by a very reliable foreign news correspondent.

Loz · 2 years ago

chrischris: "Loz--I agree, I was referring to her post that it is not just hearsay how Ak described crime scene. "

It's so sweet, imagin her lawyers think out the box and all that. but esentially, they can't do nowt about them witnesses. ha ha ha.

well, a shame if she stabbed or instigated an attack that sh may not be found guilty for it. But good she'll be done for pergury & letting MK down. but she's at the fulcrum as ppl said.

oh she's soooo screwed. if I were a nun or a chaplain or very relious, i'd have religious rage at what she just did today in the hearing and after she what she wrote in her latest diary.

screwed, and no out-of-the-box thinking will change it. since the knife, the connections. there's 1 possible way...but still...nope...rhg/rs didn't know each other prior, as far as they say.

I do hope that those witnesses told police things they couldn't have known & that AK had said them.

s-c-r-e-w-e-d and no one is going to buy the memory lapse given thy knew about 11pm tod before it had been determined/released and just the fact it's constructed. given they have the same gaps in memory.

nope, it's all just how much she can get away with or to wat degree the prosecution can deem she was involved from now on.

muddy · 2 years ago

Loz: over on the Perugia Shock blog the guy says RHG's and RS' apartments were 129 steps away, both on the ground floor. (With his knowledge of the streets and routes you would take) he thinks it is inconceivable that they did not know each other.

Loz · 2 years ago

An EXTREMELY GOOD POINT. more likely AK introduced them, or was introduced to RHG by RS funny though if RHG/RS had shall we say dealings the police can't trace it through the net or mobiles.

Well, at uni me & my HMs went to the same uni as all the other uni students on the street, but we each only knew of and not always that well(well on one side we did) our next door neighbours.

out next door but one neighbours, we didn't befriend all year, know their names. Like by face i may have recognised some. but being at uni, everyone has different timetables and stuff.
And our next door but one's well well less than 129 steps.

my home address, this street been living on for tens of years, I only really know the others that have lived here for a decade or more also.

so, actually - they may have lived close but led seperate lives.

I bet AKs lawyers were disappointed AK couldn't say she saw RHG & RS hang out at Le Chic, or say that RHG was RSs dealer....


had RS & RHG both been living there over a year?

like I said 129 steps means nowt.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hey Robert, a question on the format? I have been using flat because I am frustrated that using threaded you never know when someone has posted another reply to a parent or even to a reply of a parent post. IOW I am forced to scroll back all the time just to see any updates. I thought this was the same thing xin and chrischris were frustrated by, meaning they can't find anything again. Since you are urging us to use the threaded view oldest first, meaning we are always scrolled to the bottom and having to scroll back up......how are dealing with this looking back at previous threads issue? Thanks

RobertM · 2 years ago

I keep my finger on the up or down scroll keys, but not so fast I can't scan the posts, and THEN if I remember the key word or phrase I use the find function on the tool bar. The advantage of the Oldest-Thread is that for the most part the replies as embeds are few and usually pertinent to the specific question in the main or 1st embed post, as is this reply.

This is a reply to coyotewaits at Today 5:06 pm for those of you using Oldest or Newest with Flat formatting.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

We really need the absolute time stamp (like in haloscan which was set to Steve's local time) and not a relative time stamp as here in disqus set to the users preferred time. Daniel did said they just added this time stamp feature recently and were still shaking it out but it would be an option of the blog owner whether to make different time options available to posters.
Here's the rub:
From RobertM post at Today (12/17/07) 05.51 PM; Robert says: "This is a reply to coyotewaits at Today 5:06 pm for those of you using Oldest or Newest with Flat formatting." (Putting you I believe at USA EST).
From CW post at Today (12/17/07) 04.06 PM; was my post RobertM replied to (Putting me at USA CST one hour earlier which is where I have my absolute time option set to). So the time is not absolute per se to all posters it is just absolute to the user.

I hope disqus understands this (or see our posts here), and provides that fixed for all posters, whatever their locations, time stamp option and Steve (owner) can set it that way. Or so all posters who would like it so, could set an option to do so.

This is a reply to RobertM's reply (to my original parent post) posted at Today (12/17/07) at 9:28 PM.
My first chance coming back to read all the posts in thread mode. It is really great to see the posts organized like this and makes so much more sense. The posts are really great by all, logical, and clear this way. But when you're online with many posters at the same time, it is more like conversation back and forth continuously. So to keep up the only way I can see is to be in the flat mode. I wish there was some way to integrate the two. Maybe side by side split screens. Next time I am going to try to have two browser windows open (not two tabs) simultaneously and see if I can manage the flow that way. Though only because I have a very large "25" monitor. I would never try that on my laptop.

There have been suggestions here, xin, Robert, Squiggle, chris? that we need not only the fixed time stamp but a post #stamp that is the number in the parent or perma link.
I would like to add to those requests that it would be great to have next to reply edit buttons a "Go To" button with a data entry box where you could fill in the post number and jump to that post. Then following the "Go To" Button would be a Back button, which whenever you had jumped to find an old post you could click on the Back button and the software would jump you back to whatever was your last screen position before you used the Go To. I think that would be quite user friendly.

belle · 2 years ago

thx cw, as I said before, I am very happy to do translations (maybe a future profession?) and can spend tireless hours working on them. But that's also the problem in a forum like this, because the process requires me to take a break from the conversation sometimes I miss updates, perhaps working on something that no longer holds interest... For that reason, I'd really appreciate some formal direction. Give me an order and I'm off! I just don't want to work on something that could end up being a waste of time, because it does take up so much of it.

Oh, I remember someone mentioning the text "Meredith dies tonight" That would be referring to Grey's Anatomy, the episode where the heroine decides to let herself drown and the entire hospital joins forces to bring her back.... and weren't there like dozens of other patients majorly injured in a huge explosion?? I guess they weren't as cute with that little raspy voice... even in dubbed italian.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

belle wrote: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
I am at a bit of a lost on suggestions for you, belle. I just wouldn't want to lose your skills here. I do understand you wishing to stay with the flow of conversation and not have to work back and forth. That contrasted with the impatience of posters (me included) to want the latest press report translated by you immediately so we can discern any truth or fact.

Here my thought. Everyone learn to live with the google/web translators for the day of press release like today. Posters provide the various links to press reports as today. The subject is always apparent, as today it was reporting on AK's six hour interrogation. Belle reviews the reports at her leisure as she would anywise as she participates in the blogging comments. Belle selects the one report she thinks provides the best coverage of the subject and sets it aside letting others know that is the report she will translate offline when she has the time. Belle does the translation at her leisure over the next, say 48 hours and saves it to a text/word file. Belle logs on when she has time after completing, publishes her translation all at once (most likely several individual posts). Belle then breathes a sigh of relief and enjoys once again joining in the discussion.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Forgot the important: Everyone reads belle's translated text and sings their praises once again that she is a gift amongst us.

RobertM · 2 years ago

BELLE pick one, announce that you are doing it, do it as an embed and we'll all pay attention.

chrischris · 2 years ago

Quite frankly, the whole memory lapse in my oppinion can be wiped out by the fact that AK smoked hash at the same time she was also receiveing good grades, and being such an on it student. Quite a contradiction

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... ChrisChris on memory lapse.
Of course agreed,and her points of amazing clarity, and the fact it's a copy of RSs account for the 'crime' period.
And these diaries their lawyers keep letting them release, well, they're just digging their own holes deeper & deeper still.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Loz, do you really think that AK and RS could have incompetent lawyers? Could RS's father and AK's father, both who obviously must have more than adequate financial resources (not having to mortgage the house) would be allowing for incompetence in legal representation of their own children. I know RS father has been all over this case. Some pointed out today though that AK father and mother have dropped from sight, but I think I remember in a couple press reports that they were most reluctant to talk to the press. I think the only significant statement made was by the mother right after AK was detained, then the father showed up a few days later and since we have not heard from them. My take on that is dad, being from the good old USA says that silence in these cases is best. However, that doesn't sync with what AK is doing, so he obviously agrees with his daughters counsel or he has all but abandoned her.

Loz · 2 years ago

No, their lawyers are competent BUT AK is AK, and they can't "read" her diaries. They can't see how damaging they are, or else they don't care cos they won't make/break or go into trial. Same for RS lawyers re: RS diary which showed him to be going on about trying to be free of being a marionette, and his Hooker type self-justification crud.

AKs mum & father were advised by their lawyers, I think I read, to stop talking to the press.

Their most recent focus is AKs 'image' in the pulic forum, hence the interview with her that was controlled as much as a PR agent controls what a journo can release of an interview by a celeb.

Also, the Good Morning America thing with AKs friends, who despite the fact she did drugs in UW AND had a previous scuff with the law, said she hasn't had any such history (a commenter astutely pointed this out in resonse to GMA article up on abc is it?).

Anyway, it would probably take an "anglo saxon journo" to come from the UK (not for instance the brit reporter being paid by Fox) to investigate if there is anything to the FoxyKnoxy April Fools Ski Mask Assault on her room-mate rumour/claim made on the boards of the UW 'paper'.

I do not know if her lawyers did all that publicity or work on AKs publice image (although IMHO the diary went against her because thy can't control that the prison chaplain said he believed AK would tell the truth) exposing her f-ing around with the prison nun(s) & chaplain.

Anyway, I wonder if they expected her to be bailed after Monday.

----the only way I can explain RHGs loyalty to AK is either

* RS unexpectedly 'turned' on RHG that night, RHG doesn't perceive AK did, or she wasn't involved & RS & RHG are just turning on each other saving their own skin.

* RHG & AK are solely involved in the actual crime with RS only being involved in the clean up.

* RHG is grateful to AK for allowing him his pleasures that night.

However, I know RHG doesn't drive, and that RS does. I wonder who has a white car.

I wonder if RS&RHG ran in opposite directions, why RHG & RS didn't both run to RS car together.

Ultimately, I am clueless

chrischris · 2 years ago

belle: Thank you for your translating offer. I can think of anything right now that needs to be done. I think a lot more is about to come out and we will be keeping you busy.

chrischris · 2 years ago

muddy I saw that, but I live in nyc and I don't know people in my own building--perugia is much much smaller I know, so that is a valid point.

chrischris · 2 years ago

hi kermit!
welcome, and thanks for all of your work.

REMEBER EVERYONE TO REFRESH, sometimes that doesnt even work, TO SEE UPDATES. I know it is not working when i posted and it still says zero minutes ago. Keep trying.

chrischris · 2 years ago

belle, I would love to see something from the italian papers pertaining to Rudy blood on meredith bra. At this point we only have something from MSNBC.

xin · 2 years ago

the RG DNA on the bra in news reports. it's there, everywhere in UK and It. . the dna is near the clasp of the bloody bra. I'll put it up here next time i see it. we need to learn key words like bra and bloody.
yeah! kermie: hi. we need damian, squiggle, deepen, luke...& others are missing. i know i blew them away wtih the projection of the blog, but it's now set to private in honor of their protests.

kerm: i want to put up the pix you sent and have put up your catalog of links (in English) on some of the key developments. ca94306@gmail.com, anybody can see--i trying to build a catalog of selected stuff for referral--just email me for the key to enter. it's got a long way to go. i'm thinking of interspersing italian art history lessons.

Loz · 2 years ago

Like I also wonder about the house party in which AK&MKs hms said RHG was there & passed out on the toilet and that he fancied both the girls.

I wonder if this was prior to AK meeting RS, and who invited him.

chrischris · 2 years ago

I am finding that refresh doesnt work, that I have to reclick, Newest.

Loz- yes, what are the docs on that old party at the house of horrors. would love to see again.

xin · 2 years ago

I'm finding that i miss a bunch of posts unless i go way back every so often and look at the threaded after the flat to make some sense of this.

STEVE dearie with 785 posts in 4 days (thanks to changes mostlikely) you are not exactly resting your limbs. be safe, don't push it, you know that we are perfectly able to slug it out to a conclusion.

xin · 2 years ago

Seattlelite: do you have a copy/link to Kermie's cellphone map to post so I can move it to blog and for us to see here?
Best.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Cell phone map a la Kermit...don't tell him this stuff is as good as demonstrative evidence and he could make many thousands here in the US

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?71a4...

RobertM · 2 years ago

KERMIT!!, lissen up buddy-boy. Dese powered & pointed presentashuns of yours is good stuff for doz slick legal types what do defend de accussed person in what may be called civil and too in criminal trials. Beaucop bucks to had, shiny sheckles indeed, to had stateside with your especially on the civil side, which ain't too civil when the trial starts! But you won't care with your "consulting" fees. Legalized theft.

seattleite · 2 years ago

RobertM: I never thought of my profession as legalized theft. He could work at my shop anytime.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Well, if you are working the civil side, ultimately it comes from the consumers who buy the product made by the company being sued or sueing. Its all part of over-head. If its the govt sueing a company, say Patrick Fitzgerald after Conrad Black, Fitz has to go back to DOJ to get authorized increases in his budget--if he actually had to. This is of course where ANY legal system, and even jurisprudence, fails one type of person--the defendant in a criminal trial. That person must have the ability to defend him or herself for any system to have the support of the people who use it. Miranda wasn't just the only or even the most important thing legally out of the 60s.

Federal funds were committed to creating Public Service Defense Lawyers to adequately represent US, yes, you & me. If accused of a crime, I can figure out whom to call, but can I afford a downtonw Beantown lawyer? Only if they are working pro bono. That didn't cut it, and raising dollars as nonprofits didn't cut it. So fed dollars were voted in.

Even then, as from the Innocency Project which takes on the tough DNA projects of those already convicted (but not all), your public dfender might get paid but he or she doesn't have much of a budget either. There's a Texas death penalty case in which Jim Baker's white-shoed pro bono firm is shooting at the previous, one-wild-man public defender who lost what looks like a winnable case. (Being Texas its really complicated but was never a sexy case because there was no sex involved; just a naturalized Caribbean woman of smarts who was run as a deep DEA agent for yours and was never really off the books, but a couple of years ago the boyfriend borrowed her rented car as the getaway vehicle in a robbery turned hit. All three men then named her as the brains behind it and the Texas DAs bit and even got a death penalty decision out of the jury. [The DP must be coded into the sugar on their cornflakes.] Not until she told her prison case manager that she was also a british citizen did real resources for the defense shake loose. The Brit consul knew nothing, but this Brit consul runs in Baker's circle, so...)

And by the way, just what would your job title description be like and how would characterize your firm's role in the legal industry. I'm trying to imagine this.

seattleite · 2 years ago

Most of this stuff falls under the heading of litigation support. There are many areas tech, paralegal, and information technology--for instance Kermit took several concepts of the case--locations of suspects, location of evidence, geography and reduced many pages of documents to just a couple of slides: comprehension through info tech.

I don't talk about my cases or clients but if what you pay for a gallon of gas goes up maybe I just got a chunk of work.

fran · 2 years ago

Some more from today La Repubblica article

[Amanda] said that Raffaele wasn't working at his computer, denying, as a matter of fact, just the alibi given by her boyfriend, which is already crumbling confronted with the check up by the Postal Police. Then she has confirmed that Meredith had never been at Raffaele's house, without giving an explanation about how is it possible that the English girl's Dna has ended there on the knife taken by the Police in that house. "I've known Rudy at Lumumba's pub Le Chic, but that evening - Amanda has said - i was at Raffaele's. We watched the movie, then we had dinner and made love".

Ha detto che Raffaele non lavorava al computer, smentendo, di fatto, proprio l'alibi fornito dal fidanzato e già crollato di fronte agli accertamenti della polizia postale. Poi confermato con certezza che Mez non era mai andata in casa di Sollecito, senza spiegare però come è possibile che il dna dell'inglese sia finito sul coltello da cucina sequestrato in quella abitazione. "Ho conosciuto Rudy Hermann Guede al pub Le Chic di Lumumba, ma quella sera - ha raccontato ancora Amanda - sono stata a casa di Raffaele. Abbiamo visto il film, poi abbiamo mangiato e fatto l'amore".

Loz · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
fran "was at Raffaele's. We watched the movie, then we had dinner and made love"."


but originally she puts the love making well before dinner, and the burst pipes after it:

One of the things I am sure that definitely happened the night on which Meredith was murdered was that Raffaele and I ate fairly late, I think around 11 in the evening, although I can't be sure because I didn't look at the clock. After dinner I noticed there was blood on Raffaele's hand, but I was under the impression that it was blood from the fish. After we ate Raffaele washed the dishes but the pipes under his sink broke and water flooded the floor. But because he didn't have a mop I said we could clean it up tomorrow because we (Meredith, Laura, Filomena and I) have a mop at home. I remember it was quite late because we were both very tired (though I can't say the time).

I also read that the moment she broke down during this & an earlier interrogation she had, was when she was asked directly if she held down MK while someone raped her. As a print was found on MKs face.

xin · 2 years ago

kermit might BE perugia LE

Fran: grazie xo

seattleite · 2 years ago

Xin wrote:" kermit might BE perugia LE"

Crossed my mind. If so like RS lawyers...get twenty police seperated by about three yards...start down from the girl's house and make your way through the trees all the way to the cell phone drop off and stay away from the road as much as possible until you get the door to the gate. As Pinecone suggested...bring a sniffy dog.

Loz · 2 years ago

from http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-12...
However, a prosecution source who was at the prison said:''Knox burst into tears after a while and then refused to answer any more questions.

''The interrogation was stopped for a while and then restarted but she refused to answer anything else that was put to her.''

chrischris · 2 years ago

wow Fran:
"...[Amanda] said that Raffaele wasn't working at his computer, denying, as a matter of fact..

--ok so, what is the entire true translation, Fran, Belle???

fran · 2 years ago

When questions have become more insisting, Amanda has crumbled down: she is fallen in contradiction, she hasn't been able to explain how she could know some details which just someone who had been there in that house on the night of the 1st of November could know.
Already in difficulty, the American has completely crumbled confronted with the question regarding Patrick Lumumba, "Why did you put him into this business?", the pm has asked her. The girl hasn't given an answer, has been uncertain for a while and then she has started to shout repeating the same sentences she wrote on his memorial before going to jail ("I am seeing falshes, I am seeing flashes") and she has started to cry.


Quando le domande si sono fatte più insistenti, Amanda è crollata: è caduta in contraddizione, non è riuscita a spiegare come potesse sapere particolari che solo chi era in quella casa la notte del primo novembre poteva sapere.

Già in difficoltà, l'americana è crollata definitivamente davanti alla domanda su Patrick Lumumba. "Perchè lo ha chiamato in causa?", le ha domandato il pm. Non ha risposto, ha titubato un istante, poi ha iniziato a gridare ripetendo le stesse frasi scritte anche nel memoriale prima di andare in carcere ("vedo i flash, vedo i flash") ed è scoppiata a piangere.

http://www.repubblica.it/2007/12/sezioni/cronac...

Loz · 2 years ago

also fran (good luck for today).

she originally specifically broke down upon being accused of holding MK down while she was assaulted, (and the police giving the fingerprint evidence on the face for their suspicion).

I just posted this on Haloscan:

and why in her statements did she say she
1) watched amelie
2) made love
3) Ate
4) the pipes broke.

and in this hearing she now says:

1) watched film
2) Ate
3) Made love

???????

oh yeah, cos she's losing track of her lies.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Wow, haloscan was better, I just loaded it again and found many of us still posting there. It was so fast loading and reloading. I miss it.

chrischris · 2 years ago

fran: that to me says she is lying.

xin · 2 years ago

thanks s'ite for kerm's cell map.
yeah. kermit could have retired on fees for services to the scott peterson case. there was a guy who was sneaky, got around, had five cellphones, sold *fertilizer* chemicals of value to the san joaquin valley meth labs. it was great to be in court to hear those phone calls COLD -- no little media buzz slipped out.

seattleite · 2 years ago

But can he do fades and morphs like the DA ppt in the Spector trial? Shoulda put Man1 in the jury instructions.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

fran wrote: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Wow! Were you there fran? Did you get to witness the hearing, or was the journalist who wrote this version there? Just curious as I find the reporting quite biased and with too much drama. The Italian way I guess.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Just back from traveling

A HAT tip to Sparrow at sparrow —12/14/2007 11:02 PM--just down from Steve's first post. This is a nested discussion (and no I have to re-read Squiggle's instruction), and it appears I may have cribbed her essential points a bit further on. as more & more of this EVIDENCE Back-Tracking goes on by the ILE, i am more & more in clined to see her theory as one fo the better fits.

And if sso, then Amanda really does need that Alioto Woman from Sicily.

fran · 2 years ago

Actually I am afraid I translated a verb with "denying" but a better translation is "disproving"

I suppose the article is someway biased anyway, the journalist reconstructed the events

fran · 2 years ago

Yes sometimes articles in italy don't give the exact origin of recollections of events -- I suppose we have to look at different artcicles to have a clearer idea. Anyway what this article is saying is plausible

fran · 2 years ago

I've to go now too!! I have got a job interview tomorrow morning at the British Institute in my town!
Goodnight
Ciao to all

xin · 2 years ago

Good luck, Fran. Hope it goes easy and is comfortable.

chrischris · 2 years ago

bella--"chris, bloody bra+ repubblica -got it. thanks," unless you see a better article to translate. Previosly, in this new blog, i posted serveral top line newspapers.

Thank you!!! we really need a true translation cause too many inuedos are happening.

Fran--Good luck on the job interview!!!

chrischris · 2 years ago

LOZ: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...
It seems that traces of blood were found on the broken window and a handkerchief near a railing that surrounds the road above

-- This link to google translate is not responding. please let me know when and where this article is from and a brief note on what it says. It really helps with this anyway, cause then you don't have to click every link. THank you!!!

muddy · 2 years ago

La Republica 2 November

chrischris · 2 years ago

kermit-- I would assume the car is evidence and no one has access to it, no matter who has the keys.

Kermit · 2 years ago

ChrisChris and Loz: It seems that traces of blood were found on the broken window and a handkerchief near a railing that surrounds the road above

The bloodied hanky or tissue is what the cop is looking at in the image in the new Powerpoint just after all the map slides.

I'm off to bed. Goodnite.

Loz · 2 years ago

I thought they might be Kermit. Thanks.

could be a genuine tissue drop, could be the bloodied tissue was used to smear the railing on purpose.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Is the Italian word for "crime" translating to "yellow" with these web translators? Anyone know? That word yellow keeps popping up in almost every Italian press article.

RobertM · 2 years ago

GIALLO is the word for Yellow. CRIMINE is crime. [from Altavista's Babelfish]

What is the context in which the English word appears?

seattleite · 2 years ago

Giallo=yellow and refers to the yellow covers of sensational crime fiction (paperbacks). It's hot or fantastic crime or maybe sleazy crime. Example of a "yellow" crime fiction cover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Giallo001.jpg

RobertM · 2 years ago

OK, what we would have called,in a slightly different context, "yellow journalism" circa 1880-1910, say Hearst's push for the Spanish-American war. Just wiki that for more detail on that. I don't remember how yellow originated in this case as US slang.

...
This weird, really out of left field thought crossed my mind: As Patty Hearst did serve several years in Cali prison, and did and is still married to an ex-guard/security agent, just imagine some of their reminisences at quiet, private moments, eh? And perhaps some variant, bedroom games.

Oh, xin with your rolodek relationships, you must have SOMETHING on PH?

seattleite · 2 years ago

Same thing the paper of the Hearst papers had a yellow tint.

xin · 2 years ago

god i hate this shit (DQ)
hope CW and others who need this find it. I am sick of working for this start-up software company.

this term giallo was asked and answered ages ago, as with "giallo Perugia" which means
Perugia mystery...and may be related to our own "yellow" (exploitive) journalism. but to be simple, think of it as "mystery."

yes, giallo means yellow.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hey Steve, I can feel your frustration and sympathize with you. I didn't say this earlier to you today but would care to now. As you well know this has been a voluminous blog with international attention and could go on for a long time. I think the change just threw all of us for a loop causing us to do a auto check we didn't wish to do. Thus our frustrations flowed overboard and perhaps not so justifiably. But, given the intensity here it probably, in hindsight of course, been a better decision to implement the new threading software with new blog entries. I would assume though that was probably not possible. It was either a universal update for all your entries or no update. I am assuming this because you said you reset the Haloscan system for all the blog entries.
What ever, I support this new software. I hope you do keep using it, especially if the developers keep improving it. They have already made changes on the fly, I see (or you did having controls I wasn't aware of) and I was most impressed that daniel ha while on line opened a thread to accept critique. This system is much better than haloscan by far. As I said for this thread it just came at the wrong time.

My vote would be to stay here. But if the others move back then I will just use both until this dies. Do please let us know if you plan to come back to this system. You have my support.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I would like to start a thread as Robert did early to day and for every one to use it with the reply button only and vote and please vote only once unless you wish to change your vote. Then note you are changing your vote in the later post so we do not count it twice. Then when we feel we have enough votes that we have a plurality of members (say in 36 hours) we count and the majority votes detremines our home thread system.

Vote as follows: I vote for Haloscan or I vote for disqus. No yes and no answers to avoid bias in words (ha).

Loz · 2 years ago

I vote for disqus.
(it doesn't have the 'refresh' problem that haloscan does)

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

pink drummergirl posted her original vote here as follows:
http://media.disqus.com/uploads/users/4163/avat...

We re enter her vote in the vote thread for counting:

pinkdrummergirl —13 minutes ago with 1 point
i've got a mac and disqus works fine. I like disqus...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I vote for disqus.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Accepting Rhonda's vote from offline as she is having trouble with getting here.

Rhonda votes for Haloscan.

Rhonda: Please change it if I proxy voted incorrectly for you.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

@ seattleite —Today 12:09 AM with 1 point

I vote for disqus

seatlleite missed the direct reply button but her vote counts and is re-recoded here
from just the next post down in the thread view
http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

The parent thread for voting on which comments thread we should settle on is at this link. Please branch to this link and vote for the where we should land to keep this our thread in focus for all. Please you the reply button at the end of the parent Vote post. Thanks

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

seattleite · 2 years ago

I vote for disqus

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I am not going to stump for either system and try to influence anybody. I voted that's it. I go with the flow. Just like I wouldn't stump for any of the democratic or republican candidates for presidental nominees in these upcoming primaries. But I'll vote.

However, I would like to stump for Steve Huff and his family. We all really enjoy his blog and channels he provides for us to share our thoughts and our asides. So gather up your points you've scored here and read his main blog page about the second or third post down dated 12/15/07, then send a donation as thanks for all his effort. After realizing how much value his blog has created for my psyche I did let him know my appreciation, even if he deleted two my more over the top posts today :-). I deserved it. And he deserves your support.

http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/

xin · 2 years ago

Here's Theresa Duncan's blog
http://theresalduncan.typepad.com/
it's pretty much the same as the day she died except a memorial message has been added by her friend, and a really elaborate (controversial) article about an (well-known) artist, Anna Gaskill, an old girlfriend of JB's, was pulled within days of Duncan's death. TD had spun an already complex tale into an insanely complex tale about Anna's father (Nebraska) as a secret CIA agent involved with Child Pornography and it was wild. Her estate removed that one. I love her stories about Kate Moss (she loved Kate Moss, some of these entries are really funny) and the entry about the smoking museum. Her descriptions of perfume, and especially an LA perfume were so poetic and perfect. TD had absolutely exquisite taste and it permeates her blog. She had calendared two items, which is why you see one for Oct 07, which is after she died (she died in July). I think there is one more she had programmed in coming. So she reaches from the grave.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

OT again)) xin, many thanks for the URL to TD's blog. That is what I love about this place. So many people, you and Robert probably topping them, are so knowledgeable about so many different subjects. True eclectics. I did get the obvious impression from the author that TD was sinking fast into paranoia and depression. Sometimes the opposite side (dark side?) of brilliance and creativity. But for JB to go a week later just baffled me.
Realizing for the first time your many associations and friends (trial) and that you cc'd: DD on the TD/JB and Perugia stuff. What are the chances that that globe trotting diarist of celebrities and murder mysteries might spend a few weeks in Perugia next year when a fascinating trial starts. I have followed his columns and talk show visits (Charlie Rose, Larry King for years), had no idea he even knew how to curse (laughs) and that he frequently did trips to London and Paris and reported therefrom. I know he his getting senior now and only publishes his column in VF 6 times a year now instead of every month. But what a delight for me to hear his sarcastic yet sharp witted and friendly coverage from Perugia for a week or two. Oh well just imagining what some one else said here. International Court TV from Perugia. Well ok, as long as G.V.S. doesn't anchor it.

pinkdrummergirl · 2 years ago

dear CW, is it just me but I find it hard to understand your writing. Who is TD,DD,JB,GVS? What are you on mate?

RobertM · 2 years ago

Actually, the origin of xin/s main post is a Mystery to Me too, other than that through life-contacts she knows this Duncan woman & associates. [Pay attention. Xin knows a lot of people who know a lot of people--I'm beginning to suspect there's a fine non-fiction narrative on California life & people that one could weave using xin's life. Or one hell of a roman a clef novel(s) if she decided to go the Jacqueline Susann route, as In "Beyond the Further Adventures of the Girls from the Valley of the Dolls".]

Still, DD = Dominick Dunne, famed reporter/gossip colunmist who, due to his daughter's murder, came to realize that sometimes only true justice is what gets onto printed pages that will outlast us all. His viewpoint style is "what fool's these mortals be", caring all the while. Google him or so see wiki article. His focus is true crime among celebrities.

GVS= Greta van Susteren from cable news court shows. She's the one with the slightly funny mouth. A more credible version as a lawyer than Nancy Grace. Where oh where is Dan Abrams.

But as to just whom JB & TD really are, we both will have to read the blog or
checkout the wiki article. I'm thinking JB is Jeff Beck but strongly suspect that's only showing my age..

As to what CW is on, well, its likely scotch, and if it was weed, it'd be nowhere's near the quality xin gets for her scrip. Me, a now prefer dry reds; there are a lot of nice little labels out ther from California, but in general I haven't imbibed since birthday. Situation, not preference.

pinkdrummergirl · 2 years ago

thanks robertm for your translations. I know dominick dunnes work quite well. But does Coyotewaits seriously expect people to guess who GVS etc are? To me, good writers, good blogs, good forums are all about communicating clearly not confusing people.
I prefer a margharita myself!

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

To pinkdummergirl: If you read these comments thread thoroughly and carefully you would see my specific reply to your complaint on 12/18/07, my apologies and explanation. Thus your continued criticism is unwarranted and unjustified. My post just a few posts back can be found at

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

pinkdrummergirl · 2 years ago

coyote, I know exactly who Dominick Dunne is. I've read his books, subscribe to vanity fair and am a big fan too, Its just that I wouldn't expect to initialise his name and expect people to know who I'm talking about. It's not alot of effort to type out the whole name is it?
I tend to only drop in on this thread occasionally as my main obsession is with the Mccann case. There are probably other people like me. So we need names not initials.
Anyway someone has come onto the Madeleine Mccann thread and taken away all our points! And we are not haloscanning it, we are sticking with disqus.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

OT) my apologies pinkdrummergirl, i forgot to label my reply to xin as OT = off topic.
TD was Theresa Duncan, 40, a very creative writer, artist in her own right, and entrepreneur and artist promoter. JB was Jeremy Blake, 35, a creative genius in the new art form of digital multi-media art. The two were friends, lovers and partners in the art world (USA) for 12 years. I say was because TD on July 10, 2007 committed suicide. Even with friends keeping a close eye on and support for Jeremey, he followed her with his own suicide one week later July 17, 2007.

The story is both fascinating and mysterious and can be found here at Vanity Fair Jan 2008 issue.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008...

Robert graciously covered who DD and GVS are. I initiated the OT conversation with xin because I have always been a big fan of Dominick Dunn, a diarist, father of a murdered daughter when she was ~22-24 y.o., and now a writer who covers high profile murder cases in the USA. Accused O.J. Simpson, Phil Spector, etc. So I was asking her if she might put a bug in his ear about maybe covering the Meredith Kercher killing when the trail starts, which I guess puts us back on topic.

Welcome pdg, I haven't noticed you here before. Hope you join us and offer your ideas.

xin · 2 years ago

Loz--have you read Frank's latest Perugia-Shock blog? It's like you two have been resonating.

Loz · 2 years ago

We haven't been, but I did just read it this morning from the post that says his was the most amusing. food for thought.

annarbor · 2 years ago

A more detailed version from the TimesOnline UK, of the interview of AK by investigators yesterday:

Amanda Knox, the American student suspected of involvement in the murder of her flatmate Meredith Kercher in Perugia, broke down and cried during questioning when asked how she could possibly know so much about Ms Kercher's "death agony" if she was not there. ..

Ms Knox, questioned yesterday by Giuliano Mignini, the chief investigating magistrate in the case, broke down again - this time "hysterically", with "shaking fits" - when asked why she had accused Diya "Patrick" Lumumba, a Congolese bar owner in Perugia for whom she worked part time, Italian reports said today. Mr Lumumba was arrested but later released for lack of evidence, although he remains "under investigation".
...Asked how she explained the presence of both hers and Ms Kercher's DNA on the kitchen knife thought to be the murder weapon, Ms Knox replied "I don't know, I can't understand it". She said "Mez" - Ms Kercher's nickname - had never been at Mr Sollecito's flat, where the knife was found. Il Messaggero said she appeared unaware that Mr Sollecito has claimed that he, Ms Knox and Ms Kercher had cooked together in the kitchen of his flat.
..Although Ms Kercher's body was found on other side of the bed, police forensic scientists have concluded that it was dragged there, and that she was in fact murdered in front of the wardrobe by having her throat slit while on her knees. Asked how she could have known this if she was not there, Ms Knox began to cry and refused to reply.

She appeared similarly "confused" when confronted with the testimony of Robyn Butterworth, one of Ms Kercher's fellow British students at Perugia, who said that at the police station Ms Knox had appeared "strangely unmoved" by Ms Kercher's death and "proud" of having "found" the body. Her lawyer said Ms Knox had "exercised her right not to speak" for the rest of the interrogation...
...Sources close to the investigation said it was striking that Ms Knox never mentioned Mr Guede at all, "as if he did not exist", when in fact they knew each other and had exchanged mobile phone calls before and after the killing.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

Kermit · 2 years ago

Inspector = police detective

Kermit · 2 years ago

AnnA, it gives me heartburn. Dumb, very dumb things like this allow the good detective work (¿has there actually been some? - I hope so) to be questioned.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Kermit, I'm certain that there has been some good detective work, and I recall that the Rome Forensic people were brought in at one point...You just have to wonder how an oversight like this happens?

When RS' lawyers first clammored for a search in the underbrush around the house--It seemed reminiscent of AK making noise to the police about the s**t in the toilet, as though RS et al knew that there was something provacative to be found...Maybe my imagination is working overtime. What was that you said about conspiracy theories? : )

Kermit · 2 years ago

So, AnnA, is each one covering what they consider important? .....
Eg.: Knife with DNA in RS's place, ergo knife in bushes (with or without DNA. Also, seems that it could cut butter - if heated - but isn't very threatening)
Eg.: I (AK) am in the center of attention, ergo look in the toilet bowl.

What will Rudy's lawyers come up with?? Look for the brown-haired Italian guy (the one without glasses), ... look over there! Oh, too bad, not fast enough.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Lawyers are supposed to look out for the interests of their own individual clients. Precisely, maybe in this convoluted case, lawyers for 2 or 3 of the principal suspects have decided to coordinate manoeuvres, within their possibilities.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Loz, my fault for lack of clarity in my comment below. The "she" without a wardrobe (on my first review of the video) is Amanda, not the victim, who very clearly has a closet (cupboard, you say, in UK? Isn't that where you put cups? ... chesterfield, sofa, or couch????? Okay, I'm drifting off topic). In any case, the police reports and the famous grainy crime scene photo clearly show a closet. In the PPT, I stuck in a cupboard, just because it made sense. Also, obviously I guessed at the layout of the bathrooms (especially the big one), and the washing room (washing machine and dryer), and as for Filomena's and Laura's rooms, I just stuck in a bed.

Between this new material and our exchange of posts in the prior thread about the kitchen, I can update the layout when I get some time.

In any case, I'm going to closely go over the video to try to improve my understanding of the internal set up of the house.

Loz · 2 years ago

Ah right, no it's me reading hurridley.
Thanks kermit for your tireless work in ppt!
don't forget though, we don't know which bathroom it is.
and I can't remember if it was lost in translation or if that bathroom IS THE bathroom and that the blood was found on/in the bidet, cos I also read it was found on a sink tap?

Kermit · 2 years ago

AnnA, ref. Haloscan/Disqus, I figure that if this is Steve's blog, we might as well use the tools he wishes us to use. I'm slowly getting used to this format and its quirks. I don't want to say "I like it" (how daring), but there are nice features, like grouping postings by user if you're looking for that one posting by Juanito that you really want.

Okay, it wastes screen space, it's much less discrete at work, the timestamping is weird, but if you hang out in Rome long enough, you'll end up speaking Italian, and liking pasta.

What I do do, is to sneak a peak back at Haloscan from time to time. Today I thought the internal house video was of special interest, so I posted a note there to that regard, saying to check here for the reference.

chrischris · 2 years ago

livnnlrnin : Welcome. Look forward to your input. What cases were you into on steves blog? I just started with steve with this Kercher case.

Kermit: I agree that Steve is our host, and it is better to be where he is active.

Ok all , I have to run will be back later.

Loz · 2 years ago

Looking at the plan you posted kermit & video, I think you got te location of MKs wardrobe right.

bpcl · 2 years ago

I would expect RS's lawyers to say anything they feel in order to try and remove suspicion from their client. This crime was committed on Italian soil and just because we do not like their way of doing things vis-a-vis our own countries is tough luck. The fact of the matter is, that AK and RS are caught up in their own lies. He says that he was on his computer most of the night, from what is it, 9:00 pm until 1:00 pm. AK says that they ate at around 11:00 pm, and then watched a movie and what else, made exotic love. That is a conflict and everyone knows it. The Italian system does not allow for someone to obfuscate the truth and hide behind a lawyer at the present moment. And that should be respected. They are on their own sovereign soil and they can try this case the way they see fit. A young woman has been sexually assaulted, and brutally murdered. They have every right to do what they feel is necessary to bring the criminals to justice. I have stated before, this case will be tried on the forensic evidence and the strength of the suspects alibis or lack thereof. AK says she is innocent as does both RS and RG. Each of them will have their day in court to prove their innocence.

RobertM · 2 years ago

bpcl Please move comment over to http://tinyurl.com/2kftvc

Thanks so very much

Middie · 2 years ago

Shoe print disappeared... A "round knife" is magically appeared exactly where RS's lawyers once told... What a surprise!!!... Freemasonry begin to work...
ciao

fran · 2 years ago

http://tv.repubblica.it/home_page.php?playmode=...

Pinecone · 2 years ago

From DLW:
Rudy’s psychiatrist : Rudy is ’a fragile youth, not aggressive and above all non violent‘. Me: I wonder if he means by that he’s easily manipulated.
****
If he were easily manipulated it seems like he'd have adapted well to the Italian family that took him in. He was offered educational and vocational opportunities, but cared nothing about setting or achieving meaningful goals. The father of that family was clearly disgusted with Rudy and had nothing good to say about him.
I think the psychiatrist said what he was paid to say.

fran · 2 years ago

He feel down because his trousers were down under his knees

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Xin,
Good question about Rudy's having scraped knees. He had a reason for saying he fell down.

chrischris · 2 years ago

robert

Also, as you recently wrote "For its implications, see my reply immediately above.", for me that is below for I have set up for most recent comments.

RobertM · 2 years ago

I hate this format. Scrolling DOWN is natural, flipping back & forth is NOT. Also, I can't do 1 save-as, I have to do page save-ases.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

RobertM, I bet that you are still using the "wrong" page. I bet you are at http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/2007/12/open-thr..., because that's the version that is paginated and is causing you grief. To get the most Haloscan-like version, go to http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... No pagination, saving will work, etc. etc.

AndyT · 2 years ago

I know The Times, London, has not always been a reliable source but on Nov 25 it reported the following: "Reports said the police heard the washing machine spinning to the end of its cycle as they arrived at the cottage at 1235." (Did The Times got the time wrong by one hour?)
Since automatic delayed spins are rather unsual in Europe, this implies, at the very least, that AK/RS set it spinning manually.
For the report, see
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

AndyT · 2 years ago

Pinecone I don't think you should be giving yourself points. If you want some points, just ask us to give to them to you. G'night all.

AndyT · 2 years ago

But ChrisChris how can you agree with a belief?
Let's stick to the facts on this thread.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"That is, we will be sailing the ship along the Straight Lines of Post to Reply, Not Reply to Reply?"

I like Post to Reply also. I don't want to miss anything.

chrischris · 2 years ago

we should ask RS about how to maniupulate the timestamp, don't ya think?
(Just kidding. I still think what I always have been thinking)

Kermit · 2 years ago

I'm off to bed, will see if I'm less technologically challenged in the morning. Thanks for all your techy comments. Cheers.

(Ah, yes, one last question, what really is editting for? If I regret getting too antagonistic after the fact, and want to revise history? That seems like Stalin turning Trotsky into a column in a photo of Lenin exhorting the virtues of communism.) Good nite you all. BTW the question about editting is serious. MAybe it's to put in HTML formatting code after the fact?? Good nite!

chrischris · 2 years ago

Robert M--14 posts down from this recent " The short for theory....Leave the gun take the canoli post" Is basically the same post of yours. Don't know why, but I saw it before and gave it a point!

chrischris · 2 years ago

you can only edit after a little while after posting I've notice. Its seems you can't really go back and change stuff after too long a time. Nite Kermit. I have to sign off too ya all.

RobertM · 2 years ago

As for leakers, I'd have to say Perugia LE and not the friend. UNLESS the ILE actually left the original of the call with the Friend, which makes no sense at all, but hey what do I know about ITALIAN police procedures?

Didja see the artcle in Saturday's Guardian by the wife of one of the other Rais tennis palyers, another family vacationing at Mark Warner's? Her husband, the one who met McCann on his way back from his last check , was interviewed ONCE by a local Praia cop who took notes on the back of the envelope and of course the translator was Murat. This WITNESS's only formal police interview was by Leicestershire police just this past October or early November. He has not been reinterviewed by Protuguese police.

WOWSER. Do read it. Its also a look from INSIDE the media beast in the first few days. One of the key lines "my daughter played with Maddie in the creche but I couldn't have picked her out as there were ten little blond girls for the two boys who were there." Very much a heart-tugging there but for the lot of room availability when we signe dup for the week goes I.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Thanks for the link, Viv. The verbal exchange about the party explains how the judges concluded Meredith had not met Rudy before November 1. He thinks he's smart enough to get out of this mess.
I agree about the diary chunks. I dread those thrice-translated puzzles.

BeenHereAllAlong · 2 years ago

Ooops--I just posted this on the dead thread.
It's kind of funny Rafe mentioned in his diary that Meredith was wearing an ex-boyfriend's pants when he saw her that afternoon. Maybe a way of explaining why the (un-bloodstained) pants found with her body might not be her size?

Loz · 2 years ago

"It's kind of funny Rafe mentioned in his diary that Meredith was wearing an ex-boyfriend's pants when he saw her that afternoon. Maybe a way of explaining why the (un-bloodstained) pants found with her body might not be her size?"

Maybe, the jeans whoever they were, were swapped.

annarbor · 2 years ago

As far as AK running away, I think she hoped that police would buy the break in/random rape/murder staging. I think she hoped for a quick close to it all and I can't imagine that she anticipated that the whole world would be watching....

Pinecone · 2 years ago

annarbor: As far as AK running away, I think she hoped that police would buy the break in/random rape/murder staging.

Very amusing. How could she have known the cops in Perugia are jackasses?

fran · 2 years ago

Why talking about these cops this way?

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Why talking about these cops this way?

Because they declared, "Case closed" before Rudy had made it to the border.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

I'm see that we have actual time stamps for some of the posts nowl That'll make it easier to refer to previous posts. Thanks to whoever changed it.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Not on my side of this screen! You are still "two minutes ago", and yes, its a Steve thing to change.

Good night, Moon!!!

Pinecone · 2 years ago

annarbor: I wonder how the Kerchers can even take a breath in the face of their loss, much less make it through a day..

I think I'd rather know my loved one had been taken quickly by a lone stranger, than by a group of people she knew.

Loz · 2 years ago

pinecone: "I think I'd rather know my loved one had been taken quickly by a lone stranger, than by a group of people she knew. "

she didn't know them long. AK has 'defects' MKs f&f have gone to the press with MKs troubles with AK. she hardly even knew RS.

so...

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Robert M: Not on my side of this screen! You are still "two minutes ago", and yes, its a Steve thing to change.

Try scrolling down to a post from 1 hour ago. On my machine it's indicating the actural time.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

This only happens if you change your profile settings. It is not a site-wide setting. Click on Profile at top right (as always, at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...), then on Settings at top right of the next page. Scroll down to "Account Settings" at the bottom of the page. There you can change and save your "Date/Time Formatting" option.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

It says 15 minutes ago.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

Got that one, "Thanks for the link, Viv."

Pinecone · 2 years ago

I'm on central time (US), but will gladly change to whatever would be most convenient for the majority.

Anon68283 · 2 years ago

Link to previous posts, e.g., comment-36754:

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Pinecone · 2 years ago

LOZ,
I think Rudy used the sliver of glass because it was convenient and Meredith was putting up a good fight. There was blood on that broken window and window sill. Maybe we'll soon know whose blood. Rudy could have sneaked into Meredith's house while she was downstairs feeding the cats, or forced his way into the house when she returned home from her friends that night. Her route home, reportedly, took her past the basketball court where the homeless and dopers hung out at night.
I believe the two shallow cuts on Meredith's throat were from Rudy's forcing her to tell him where he could find money in the house. With the final deep cut, Rudy also punctured his own palm with the opposite end of the glass. I think the rage generated by his own injury resulted in his battering Meredith, possibly with the chair, and then strangling her.
This is the first time Rudy's been arrested for murder. That doesn't mean he's not done it before, only that he's never been caught. Now that his DNA is in the database, maybe other crimes will be solved.
As for the alleged phone calls between AK and Rudy, that information has not been released. The business about her key working on every lock in the house might or might not be true. What would be the point in having a door lock if everyone else had a key?

Loz · 2 years ago

Pinecone: "LOZ,
I think Rudy used the sliver of glass because it was convenient and Meredith was putting up a good fight."
so, he entered he house to steal and rape, but did not bring a knife with him. Where was AK in all of this?

Loz · 2 years ago

you know pinecone, with the kitchen knife found & AKs statement 'while i stayed in the kitchen'.
OOOh do wonder if AK gave RS a knife to go and get money from MKs drawer

Loz · 2 years ago

the linking is beyond me. I have the flu. I can't be fussed. I'm quoting.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

Go with the flow that works for you, Loz. The linking is complex, especially having to edit the view settings code. Hope you feel better soon. Flu is the pits.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Squiggle
Out of several disqus forums googled this one seems to be the most direct and technical. http://disqus.com/people/nashuatelegraph/#comments

I might try copying some of your suggestions to them if I have your permission. At just a cursory glance it looks like this is really Beta and not released version. Steve must be an early adopter technophile (is that a word?)

Squiggle · 2 years ago

I reckon it's a word :) Feel free to copy anything across, particularly if you think they're watching. On the other hand, there seem to have been a few changes here in the last few hours that suggest we're being watched. If you hover over Permalink in the poster-icon menu, does the URL you see in your status bar (bottom of the browser window) still show your view preferences? Mine doesn't...

Rhonda · 2 years ago

Now both Squiggle & CW have negative points if you hover over your icons....How can that be???

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

We are two "wild and crazy and bad" dudes!!!!!! Rhonda is chasing us but far behind at -1.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Hey Squiggle. No it's not there. You're right. Type your correct email addy and use your correct IP here so they can find you and mail a few thousand shares of founder's stock to you.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Squiggle: They still haven't fixed the sort oldest replies first at each parent link level. That would help. this is a test, only a test

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

yes it does, i.e., if I am looking at the right URL in the status bar. Your total points is now -16 and I am a close 2nd at -14. I wonder if we are on our way to being banned? *yikes!* We are being watched.
I think all blogs and forums should show the the IP address of each poster at each of their posts. PERIOD

annarbor · 2 years ago

Seattleite,

Rudy has said that he barely knows Amanda, and I don't believe that she has disputed that, so just a friendly phonecall seems unlikely. Im not challenging your assertion, but you really think she'd be trying to cop more dope right after she found her roomates body and while the cops were swarming and asking her questions? Plus she supposedly bought just 12 hrs before.

AndyT · 2 years ago

Discus.com was created in a fishtank sold by Macy's in Brazil...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94oEanJP-Y

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Andy: rotflmao, thanks for the break!

xin · 2 years ago

seattleite_ thanks. i enjoy a torrefazione coffee spot in palo alto as well. classy.
but like it or not, for now, the seattle-perugia image conjures up amanda. i think she was very involved in the murder. she is the spark-plug in my opinion.

seattleite · 2 years ago

And that is awful cause... as I was trying to point out-- the sister city thing is a real thing between the two cities. Did you know the father of that girl who wrote the OP ED NYTimes piece (and yes Dad is a Pulitizer Prize/National Book Award winning writer for the Times) raised his children in Italy when he was an overseas correspondent...or that he wrote a very well known novel about Italians starting a winery from scratch in Washington state...and you know Sophie is over there...or that there are many Seattlites who go to Italy every year and that Perugia and Umbria in general are the destinations...my next year summer vacation is in Italy, planned long before this evil thing.

It would be more pleasant to talk about Palo Alto and I would rather not hear Perugia and think about this either...history, popes, archeology, natural beauty, cafes, dinner and friends should come to mind.. No, I will not put a Canadian patch on my bags.

xin · 2 years ago

hard to tell if she's wearing a hat, but her hair is a different shape ears up
here's the clearest cctv shot i think we've found:
http://tinyurl.com/yq8o99

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Xin, as was established on the earlier thread, that image is from a journalistic reconstruction. It is not one of the CCTV images that the ILE have referred to. See http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo... (where there is a link to the video it comes from) and http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...

xin · 2 years ago

That's why the questions they ask are just as important as what the Ugly American says.

Squiggle · 2 years ago

Could everyone currently creating a new thread each time they reply please start using the 'reply' link below a post when replying to it? See my post from yesterday for the reasons why: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

crobinator · 2 years ago

Important to note, if it hasn't been noted yet - especiallyn for Robert M: the edit and flat function does not show in the comments directly through the crimeblog link, but through the link selected from the disqus profile pages. http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com; not truecrimeweblog.com. See the difference? Each page presents a slightly different commenting format.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Yes, you are correct, and tis a pain to access from my bookmark at home, as it the bookmark, no matter how many times I set it, seems to default to the DOTcom format with its pagination.

AND when you get to the disqus page, you ALL need to be sure to select, THREADED. Now I myself prefer Threaded and Oldest so I can, a la Haloscan, read the nwest entries from the Top of the Screen down to the Bottom of the Screen. So I reset it now to Oldest & Threaded, then open another window to keep the main posting block available.

Squiggle has strongly recommended Usign the REPLY link beneath a post More Often Than we are doing so now to keep specific replies to specific posts, as I have done here to crobinator's reply to squiggle's main post. I think it really useful if the reply post is directly addressing a point within the main or reply, as I am doing so with this one. A main post would then be a new new "thought", say the links to all the follow-up Amanda reinterviews that will appear today.

Now if say belle returns and starts posting translations, I'd urge her to post the translations as replies to her original post, thus keeping the whole thing translated located in Master Post. But this is only a recommendation.

annarbor · 2 years ago

While i think that AK and RG may have started an attaack on MK, I think someone else continued the attack and ultimately finished it.

Pinecone · 2 years ago

"While i think that AK and RG may have started an attaack on MK, I think someone else continued the attack and ultimately finished it."

When Rudy left MK, there was nothing left for anyone else to do. He'd already stabbed her throat, strangled her, stripped off most of her clothing and ground her face into the floor. It was over.

xin · 2 years ago

the edit function is all screwy too. two windows come up for some arcane reason, then you cannot make changes, and then something else odd happens.

THIS SOFTWARE IS TOO phunking BUGGY for regular people who do not want to spend their time at a bugfest, and then writing up the report, etc. Those people should be HIRED and PAID and the normals should be spared this experience.

xin · 2 years ago

the edit function is all screwy too. two windows come up for some arcane reason, then you cannot make changes, and then something else odd happens.

THIS SOFTWARE IS TOO phunking BUGGY for regular people who do not want to spend their time at a bugfest, and then writing up the report, etc. Those people should be HIRED and PAID and the normals should be spared this experience.

soozieuk · 2 years ago

So her 'truth' is just one of her earlier versions then? Nothing new once again, unless I missed something. On an unrelated note, I figured out why my typing took so long to appear. It was because until the page is fully loaded - the typing is 'behind'!

Loz · 2 years ago

so she now says the truth is she wasn't there & she's innocent.
Then she breaks down in tears and states she doesn't want to answer any further questions.

If she was there, I hope the real CCTV nails her.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Loz -- where's the" breaks down in tears, doesn't want to answer more questions" statement from? Its not in the Republic. That would certinly contradict her lawyer's serene statement.

Loz · 2 years ago

Amanda refused to answer:
"The role of Lumumba. I nervi di Amanda avrebbero ceduto in particolare quando le è stato chiesto perché avesse chiamato in causa Lumumba: la ragazza prima ha esitato, poi è scoppiata in lacrime. The nerves of Amanda were sold in particular when she was asked why he had called into question Lumumba: the first girl he hesitated, then erupted in tears. "Lo stesso identico atteggiamento tenuto in Questura quando è stata fermata" sottolinea chi era presente all'interrogatorio. "The same attitude in the Police when he was stopped," who was present in the interrogation. A quel punto, c'è stata una sospensione per permettere ad Amanda di riprendersi ma, quando il pm ha tentato di tornare alle domande, si è avvalsa della facoltà di non rispondere. At that point, there was a suspension to allow Amanda to recover but when the pm attempted to return to the questions, made use of the option not to answer. "

from: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...
http://www.repubblica.it/2007/12/sezioni/cronac...

Being economical with the truth, is not the same as telling the truth.

bpcl · 2 years ago

Are there any URL's that link to AK's meeting with the Magistrate today?

xin · 2 years ago

squiggle:
we need you
on this crime

you've helped so much with the site tricks, but we need you on the crime, so set the software
trouble-shooter expert inside your cubicle (!), and come back to help analyze the info on the crime.

recover and return please.

Loz · 2 years ago

yeah squggle, I am sorry.

Loz · 2 years ago

woah woah woah there. she may well be innocent. but why didn't she just say 'I deduced that/those details from x,y,z?'.

what about the bleached room? - yeah I know some dispute it.

and the details about MKs body could have been anything, not immediately 'viewable' from when the police opened the door.

you're saying about Italian, well all those present at the station on Nov 2nd may not have been Italian, infact weren't some MKs english friends.

and what if it's something stupid like knowing MK ate mushrooms & cheese, within and probably not even that long before her murder, 1&1/2 hours which means she could not have spent the whole evening at RS.

For instance also, what if she knew where the cuts were on the neck etc?

even if RS or RHG told her the details & she's covering for him/them.

xin · 2 years ago

she's far far from innocent, loz. you know that she is the connector. you make good points. she needs a good lawyer--her lawyer should have thought of your points.

Loz · 2 years ago

maybe her lawyer doesn't like her?

belle · 2 years ago

"exploded to cry" = "burst into tears"

it seems like there are lots of translators available... could someone divvy out assignments? Unfortunately it takes me a while, then I come back and see that it's all been said already. (ie, this is what I was working on the last 10 or so minutes...)

L'americana scoppia a piangere quando gli sono state contestate evidenti contraddizioni
Amanda si blocca sotto le domande del pm
Perugia, anche gli avvocati di Rudy hanno incontrato il loro assistito ma non hanno rilasciato dichiarazioni



PERUGIA. - Amanda Knox, in carcere dal 6 novembre scorso con l'accusa di concorso in omicidio e violenza su Meredith Kercher, ha ribadito la propria innocenza al pubblico ministero Giuliano Mignini durante l'interrogatorio durato sei ore nel carcere di Capanne alla presenza dei suoi difensori. «Siamo molto sereni», hanno detto i legali della studentessa americana all'uscita dal carcere, «Ora attendiamo l'esito dell'attività investigativa. Amanda ha fornito una piena collaborazione». Nulla è stato precisato dagli avvocati sui particolari della versione di Amanda. «Per sei ore ha fornito la sua versione dei fatti, confermando quella già resa», ha rivelato l'avv. Costa. «Ha quindi fornito una piena collaborazione. Siamo assolutamente fiduciosi». Il legale non ha però voluto entrare nel merito di quanto detto dalla Knox. «C'è una persona innocente che sta in carcere», ha concluso l'avv.Costa.

The American bursts into tears when confronted with obvious contradictions
Amanda cuts herself off under the questions of the pm
Perugia, also Rudy's lawyers have met their client but have not issued statements



PERUGIA . -Amanda Knox, in prison since November 6 on charges of participation in murder and violence on Meredith Kercher, reiterated her innocence to the prosecutor Giuliano Migni during the interrogation which lasted six hours in Capanne jail in the presence of her defenders. "We are very calm," said the American student's legal team, "Now we await the outcome of the investigation. Amanda has provided full cooperation." Nothing has been explained by the lawyers on the details of Amanda's version. "For six hours she gave her version of events, confirming what was already given," revealed counsel Costa. "She provided full cooperation. We are absolutely confident. " The attorney did not want to go into the merit of what was said by Knox. "There is an innocent person who is in prison," concluded counsel Costa.

I love doing it, but I do sometimes agonize over which word gives the best representation... hence the time consumption.

(thanks Rhonda, about the poem... I thought I was just shouting in the wind ;) Maybe I'll go back to haloscan just to yell "Echo!"

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Thanks belle. Your translations are by far the best and necessary. The other translations are still the web translations and very vague. RobertM's were good but I am not sure, nor he about much of it.
I gathered from what you just posted something a little different from previous press reports. She was interrogated for six hours. She was cooperative. She broke down in tears.

Previous reports said: She broke down in tears and then said nothing more. Hmm, did she break down after six hours? Did the six hours include 4 hours of questions with no answers. I mean once again, what kind of journalistic reporting is this from Italian press. I say do not trust it.
This comment for all: If you had been interrogated for six hours straight (also being held in jail), question after question trying to get you to say something self-incriminating, do you not think you might be ready to break down and cry. My benefit of the doubt analysis. The break down into crying just happened to come at the question of Lumbuma , it had nothing to do with that particular question (other than that she knew she had once implicated him and was very sorry for doing it). The interrogation today proved nothing and did not provide any more evidence or clues as to what is really the facts. All it did was give the media more excuse to report nonsense about a case that really good journalists would be digging for real facts on.

belle · 2 years ago

cw, sounds good. chris, bloody bra+ repubblica -got it. kermit, thank you for the amazing presentation!
buona notte tutti, a domani ;)

xin · 2 years ago

when i hit "reply" it switches to hide, the box comes up, then everything disappears and i hit refresh.

((s'ite: sure, if kerm had the equipment. i was there that day. i'm going to put my lana's last limo ride picture show up at the blog. send me email. i'm going to add spector category and maybe put up my f*trial riend's* hilarious/dark story about arranging for susan polk to call into montel's show which turned out to be so psycho that montel cut the taping.))

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

xin wrote @ http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

I am curious. Who was Susan Polk? Part of the Spector case? I followed the case through Dommick Dunn's columns in VF. I can't believe some of these freaks in SoCal who are picked for these juries.

xin · 2 years ago

(((OT: Susan Polk was a case about a nutty woman who killed her very nutty husband (she met him at 15 when she was referred to him for psychological counseling) in their home in Berkeley. Catherine Crier wrote a book about the case. Susan fired a bunch of attorneys and in the end acted as her own counsel. Pretty crazy case. She's now doing 25 to life.

The Phil Spector jury was hung due to a (my opinion) a control-freak jury foreman, who could not set aside his extreme religious beliefs ("DNA" Mormon -- back to days of Smith and Young) to convict the killer of an unmarried, 40-year old woman who went out at night. He found that he could not rule out suicide, "reasonable doubt" for his excuse which is just crazy (I think he had a revelation that to be her meant you would want someone to kill you). That would be my calmest possible way to describe what went wrong with that jury. Nothing should be ruled out in the case of Phil Spector and his GOOD FRIEND mafia attorney Bruce Cutler. Nothing,
The dish can be had at PS's former assistant Michelle Blaine's blog (she is fearless), at
http://mcontrolblogs.blogspot.com/
it's a long story, but she HATES PS and she HATES his wife Rachelle "Chelle" and goes right up to the line. Dominick is just great. It was fun to hear his asides. He swears a lot; he's friendly with Michelle of the blog and with Michelle Phillips (ma's and pa's) another person Phil threatened with a gun, she told us all about it.)))

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Unbelievable Xin: Thanks for Michelle's URL, can't wait to read it. Ah ha, was Susan Polk the woman the one who shot (I think) her husband several times in their out in the country woods home. They had teenage children, like 18 or 19, at least a son maybe from a previous marriage. If so I remember the case it was weird? Psychos by psychologists.

Which leads me to ask: Do you read or peruse VF. If so what do you think about the Theresa Duncan and Jermey Blake suicides. And all the Scientology background. Whenever I hear anything about Scientology I go, oh gawd another human crucified. They are creepy. Germany's government finally voted to banned them outright as a religious group just last week. Not here though. I'm surprised they do not have a stealth candidate in this next years presidential race, sort of a grooming for the 2016 apocalypse.

xin · 2 years ago

I sm very interested in Jeremy Blake and Theresa Duncan. I have a life in the art world.
I printed out her whole blog (which is the BEST) and gave it to Dominick to read before he had dinner with a writer who was very interested in the case as well. DD thinks S are nuts, too.
Anyhow, couple things--many of their friends thought that J was gay. One possible conflict.
2. One story told to me was that TB had an affair and it was very devastating to both she and JB. 3. That same person told me that JB had actually been to their place while she was dying--she was still alive but he left, and came back later with the minister when she was officially found. There are those that went to "murder-suicide" which fits the ethic of this scenario. She drank (whisky? can't remember) and took tylenol, but haven't heard about any tox report, in a way, they sound like junkies, but no one has said that to me. DD just swooned when I told him her final entry included: I am in the arms of the great lover. (We thought that was a pretty brilliant final sentence.) Two very very smart and talented people, but she burned a lot of bridges, was not strong on the truth in cases, and created a twisted trail. Very psychologically intense couple of people with a very complex relationship. He was a brilliant artist and on the cusp of a big break-through. He has a show up now at the Corcoran in DC that was planned before he died. Another great study in humanity.

(I don't think they were being stalked by the Scientologists, but maybe. I know I was followed by them one day after I took some pictures of their new logo displayed suddenly on a bunch of their buildings in Hollywood last summer...D said be careful. It was weird; they have this new real Stalinistic sort of logo--)

Rhonda · 2 years ago

"If number 2) is close to the truth it explains why the three of them maintain a conspiracy to not tattle on one-another. They have everything to lose and certainly nothing to gain."


I think we have a B-I-N-G-O here folks......of course just my opinion.

RobertM · 2 years ago

That conclusion is MORE TRUE for AK & Rafe then it is for Rudy. In fact, I fail to see how its in Rudy's best interests NOT to directly implicate them. After all, as Piecone can now glory in, the real, HARD, evidence, both physical and DNA is ALL Rudy's --SO FAR, of course. As his lawyer, i'd looking at him and saying, you got to come up with more than that, I've got bupkis to work with here. And the trial will be a bench or judges' trial, utlizing a much more wide ranging standard of evidence than could possibly be seen in the US & UK. As seattleite points out, part of the rationale for keeping Amanda in prison is her statements to Meredith's friends & police on Sat., & Sun. [Plus of course ILE went out and got WIRE-TAPPING warrants right away.] In the US, whether any of that or NONE OF IT would be admitted to trial is dealt with in preliminary hearings. Much of what has leaked would fall under the NOT ADMIT category.

So, given that there's hard evidence and broader circumstantial evidence, why Rudy is holding back from naming Rafe and/or Amanda is a real "yellow" here.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

This reply is to parent post http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
and RobertM's reply to the Rhonda post following it at
http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
in thread view only.

Robert concluded his post asking "So, given that there's hard evidence and broader circumstantial evidence, why Rudy is holding back from naming Rafe and/or Amanda is a real "yellow" here?"

I have asked this same question over and over. My only logical answer needs help from our friends in Italy, (fran, belle, middie, damien pls cmebck). But this is my thought. In this stage of the Italian CCP process it is still only the equivalent of the interrogation/interview process of POI (persons of interest) in USA CCP. Until an arrest and formal charges and indictment is imminent there is no plea deals offered to just POI in the USA (in Italy they already call them suspects and can detain them). So if we are in a sort of complementary stage of the investigation in Perugia, it is that ILE are trying to gather more evidence, especially against AK and RS but without tipping their hand as to what they have. By getting each suspect to talk in interrogations they just hope to learn more a piece at a time and to break down more and more each suspects story. (e.g., just why is it reported they are going back to the HOH and look at a foot print (the heel or the trainer sole?) or something else. Because they have gleamed something in these interviews that a re-forensic examination might uncover new hard evidence.

Thus they are not tipping their hand with offers of leniency to the one suspect they have dead to rights for a M1 charge. When they finally have got all they think necessary to pull the plug and issue arrest warrants with charges, then they will top off their case with "here's the deal Mr Rudy, tell us all you really do know and we can offer you............!". By that time they will think fairly confidently that they can take down the other[s] with their forensic evidence even if Rudy fucks up his testimony of truth (the deal) in the trial from the defense attacks. So then the judges and jurors will be swayed by the whole story the LE has put together, not just some story by a known petty drug criminal of Afro ethnicity.

This is why I feel it is going to be a long time before this case goes to arrests with a scheduled trial date. PS: I also do not think RG has told his lawyer any more truth than he has the investigators. I don't know about RS and AK in that latter regard and have no opinion or guess. Coyotewaits has to wait again and again. Dang it!!!

xin · 2 years ago

well, i see it was answered. this software is not helping with figuring out WTF somebody else posted and when.

it has taken over our subject in my opinion and that makes me MAD.
They should NOT HAVE LAUNCHED WITHOUT USER TESTING

this means to me: underfunded, unqualified. This may not be true, but
it brings back BAD MEMORIES of doing PR in SILVAL.

PLEASE are you brave enough to take this to Jakob Nielsen (http://www.useit.com)? If no, then
you are not ready.

stevehuff · 2 years ago

Xin, your recent repeated complaints are a little less weighty since they reveal a few things --

* you must be coming straight to the Disqus-hosted thread, and bypassing the blog completely

* how do I know? I reverted the blog back to the haloscan system SEVERAL HOURS AGO and put up an entry about it in a different font color just so people would notice. And they have noticed, based on comments received there.

I AM WRITING A WEBLOG HERE, NOT RUNNING A MESSAGE BOARD. I MADE A CHANGE THAT I FELT MANY USERS MIGHT LIKE. SOME DID NOT. FOR REASONS I EXPLAIN ON THE WEBLOG, I DECIDED TO GO BACK TO HALOSCAN.

A pet peeve of mine since I began blogging has been readers don't even bother to check the blog, they go to the comments and whale away. Why is this a pet peeve? For one thing, I'm a writer -- there's a reason I do this. I write. I even get paid for it by other folks now. If you're not reading the blog entries, which are clearly fluid, what with updates, etc, then what the hell am I doing? Running a message board. I'm not interested in that.

This forum is now completely a choice of yours, one you can take or leave. I've linked it from "Steve's Links." The blog posts have the old haloscan comments back, including all your previous posts. Go back to using them if you want to talk about the case and don't bother using this again. Or not.

RobertM · 2 years ago

chill, babee. a little merlot, a short stroll to your hot tub, and transient karmic enlightenment.


[Neither format is at all satisfactory but I'm finding Oldest to Newest as Thread the best SO FAR--except with this older laptop which loads the thread better if I do it as Newest as Thread. And now for a bed-time Chivas neat--ha! if only.]

xin · 2 years ago

I spent 13 minutes trying to edit.
by the time shit stopped spinning, my time to edit was gone.

THIRTEEN F'ING MINUTES.
I'm going to have some of my *prescription*.
thanks rm

(My son is a descendant of John Howland. We have his will.)

RobertM · 2 years ago

You went exploring, huh? Of the several hundreds of people who've I've encountered here, only a handful have ever figured out my ongoing persona, or rather have had the curioisty. You know, based on how thick the formal Howland family books are & will be, one can safely say that the stray young man who the Pilgrims picked up off the London docks (well, we could use another likely lad) turned out to be the most fecund of all the Mayflower males. (I'm a Hopkins-Doty-Cooke-somebody else i've forgotten descendant. No Howlands. Certain families never married with others in the first 5 generations or so. The Billingtons? Who'd want to join the family which had the First Murderer and so the first execution in Ye Olde Plymouth Colony.)

xin · 2 years ago

I am sorry Steve. I know you are a writer, and a good one, and it's true, I have not come here today through the blog because I was afraid I would be more confused, lose my place and have to figure out the configurations again. I may am not smart enough for this new software.

Please forgive me and I will take a break, come back another time to see if this is a little more user-friendly or if it simply is over my head.

xin · 2 years ago

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/

frank is most entertaining today.

RobertM · 2 years ago

Can't decide if I'm on the inside looking out at me looking back in or the other way round. Here or there? Or both? And all this good stuff just from today. What think you?

Rhonda · 2 years ago

So are we moving??? Are we voting?? Sorry this is getting worse...may be doing something wrong, but my vote is back to haloscan

xin · 2 years ago

The voting idea is sort of skewed since obviously people have given up and left and there are others who can't figure out what's going on well enough to even express an opinion.

i think it is 100% Steve's decision; i abstain, but i think the software is not ready for primetime, and that it has negatively impacted the community. I do not think the failure is a result of resistance to change.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Acknowledgment to your point Xin: If you can remember those that gave up by user name, I certainly remember two or three posts that they stated goodbye, I would be willing to search those names here. And if they haven't come back by tomorrow evening, I'll be out to business all day tomorrow, then I think they should be allowed a proxy vote so identified for haloscan.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I do encourage you to make a vote for haloscan (I assume). A quick scroll, not thorough though, showed no one said they were through and not returning except, I think, you late yesterday :-). And the trooper you are, you came back. Cheers!. But kb, frangi, erhw, DLW and soozieuk have not been back. But they are all European I think and 12 to 18 hours wait for formerly frequent posters should be fair. If they are not back by then, we give 'em a proxy vote for haloscan. I would hope that would offset any skew.

Lastly, Steve has already made his decision, if you are on the blog and hit the comments key its going to take you to haloscan. This thread will not be deleted because it is on the disqus server system. Steve just probably won't manage, read it (maybe) or post anything to it.

So please make your pitch to all, my suggestion of a vote is certainly not sacrosanct. In fact it is is probably my skew to see how people feel, not necessary the best way to focus. Maybe we should keep both threads going, in a way they have been going simultaneously already. I check haloscan once a day myself. But that will be even more work for all if one appreciates all. nuf said.

xin · 2 years ago

Thanks for the tip CW. I hadn't read the Vanity Fair article--had a little more than I knew about Beck who previously said they were only briefly acquainted, and I didn't know Jeremy's father died of AIDS. I did not know them. Beck's grandfather was a Beat artist. Everyone has known Beck was a Scientologist since he first hit the scene in 96-97. If you are interested you can really get a hit of herpersonality at her blog. I learned a lot from Theresa. She was an insane genius. Her writing is brilliant, but some has been known to have been plagarized. She had very troubled creative relationships. He had a very bright future in the art world. I was aware of their work and had seen his art before they died. I still can't rule out much harder drugs with these two.

soozieuk · 2 years ago

coyotewaits - I've posted here and also been back to haloscan since the 'changeover'. I've organised this page as others have suggested, but cannot get to grips with it very well. I'm on a powerful PC but this page takes a long time to load and seems to disable everything until it's finished loading. I do prefer Haloscan but I'm trying to get used to this one too :(

muddy · 2 years ago

Interesting stuff in the Times today:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

She said "Mez" - Ms Kercher's nickname - had never been at Mr Sollecito's flat, where the knife was found. Il Messaggero said she appeared unaware that Mr Sollecito has claimed that he, Ms Knox and Ms Kercher had cooked together in the kitchen of his flat.

Mr Mignini reminded Ms Knox that when first questioned at Perugia police station as a witness the day Ms Kercher's body was discovered, she had told other witnesses she had seen Ms Kercher lying next to the wardrobe with a wound to her throat which had cause her to die "in slow agony". She had given a similar description of the scene to Marco Zaroli, the boyfriend of Filomena Romanelli, one of two Italian female students who shared the cottage with Ms Knox and Ms Kercher.

Although Ms Kercher's body was found on other side of the bed, police forensic scientists have concluded that it was dragged there, and that she was in fact murdered in front of the wardrobe by having her throat slit while on her knees. Asked how she could have known this if she was not there, Ms Knox began to cry and refused to reply.

Loz · 2 years ago

thanks
WOAH SO!!

* 8:40pm Knox, was seen outside RS house, 129 steps away from RHGs house. Knox (and RHG after going to his place? and RS?) makes her way home or to the basketball court
* or 8:40pm Knox arrives home, as per RHG, he also arrives there
* 9pm as per Knox is at the basketball court - RHG plays basketball.
* 9pm - 11pm AK & RS switch off mobiles
* 9pm-ish Mez leaves her friends house, her route would have taken her past the basketball court, and anyone on it would have seen MK.
* 9:15-ish MK arrives home. all is well at this point. because between...
...* 9:15 to earliest possible Time of death MK at least cooks garlic mushrooms (why wasn't a used punnet found in the house fridge or in the litter) and possibly cheese. She eats this JUST before T.O.D

Loz · 2 years ago

this times article seems too good to be true.

Are AKs lawyers just witewashing? cooperated fully?

I don't get the contradiction.

soozieuk · 2 years ago

"Although Ms Kercher's body was found on other side of the bed, police forensic scientists have concluded that it was dragged there, and that she was in fact murdered in front of the wardrobe by having her throat slit while on her knees. Asked how she could have known this if she was not there, Ms Knox began to cry and refused to reply."

Surely then, this is cut and dried? I don't mean 'cut and dried' as in who killed Meredith, but this must be absolute proof that Knox was present in the house when the murder took place. As for her lawyers claiming she is 'innocent' - well, while we still don't know the full extent of her involvement, we do know (thanks to her 'tendency' to lie), that she accused Lumumba of the murder, that she 'lost' the sweatshirt she was wearing that night, that her room was bleached clean, blah blah blah. Falsely accusing someone of murder is evil in itself. She may not have actively taken part in the murder - but this doesn't make her 'innocent' in any way.

The issue now, is having told so many lies, even if she were to tell the truth - how would anyone know it was the truth? This is a classic case of 'crying wolf'. My loose theory is that at the very least, she stood by and watched Meredith be assaulted and murdered. This makes her guilty of a lot more than her 'selective' confused memory would have us believe.

Loz · 2 years ago

Yes soozie UK cut&dried, yesterday before I even knew what details she had relayed to witnesses that she shouldn't even know, I posted this, which is pretty succint.(see last para of this post emboldend). Oh & also remember, originally under questioning she broke down when police had revealed they found AKs fingerprint on MKs face & had held her down.
also why in her statements did she say she 1) watched amelie 2) made love 3) Ate 4) the pipes broke. and in this hearing she now says: 1) watched film 2) Ate 3) Made love ??????? oh yeah, cos she's losing track of her lies.
are you saying that because those other (possibly english or extremely good english speaking) witnesses that told the police what AK had said to them, could not have physically (since they all have solid alibis) have known about these crime scene details on nov2nd themselves, and therefore AK definitely had to have relayed these details to them, as the police state, and that these witnesses are going to stand up in a court of law and say AK told them x,y,z, and that it's indisputably the truth ah, so she WAS there?

wonder if she dragged the body, or rhg/rs, without telling her they did. or if she's just really THAT dumb.

Loz · 2 years ago

soozieuk, don't worry about crying wolf. she's vry guilty. she even led the prison chaplain & nun on into thinking she'd tell the truth. The chaplain even said he thought she would. she even wrote in her diary that what the nun said about god helping her remember did help, until she fell asleep/passed out when MK was murdered! - see annabors posts.

AndyT · 2 years ago

From the Times' article, one can only infer once again that the assault was "staged-managed" by AK (much like the April "ski-mask assault"). I still think that there may have been an "involvement" on the part of PL. I believe his "task" was "to locate" MK and then inform AK where she was and when she would be returning to the house. This info was relayed to AK by PL in a text message, which he subsequently deleted. The assault was carried out by AK, RHG and most probably RS. RHG and RS did not know that it was to be murderous, and possibly even AK herself did not premeditate the murder. Once the assault started, however, all this changed. I believe the third final stab was intended to be fatal. IMO, the probability that is was a "mistake" (i.e. the knife went in deeper than anticipated by whoever was wielding it) is less than 20%.

Loz · 2 years ago

see that's the thing, I personally don't think an argument suddenly errupted, and weapons apparated magically in their hands. I think this cos of the mushrooms...

RobertM · 2 years ago

NOTE - General & Personal
This unannounced change by Steve to the parameters and even nature of his sandbox(es) is indeed typical of what's been happening over the past 2 plus years. The medium develops, some stuff works, some doesn't, preferences change & Steve re-arranges the furniture, sometimes drastically. It is his sandbox. We are guests.

But this guest, for all his blue-statedness, has deep "conserve" tendencies, as in if it ain't really broke, don't fix it. Haloscan was not broke. There was no need to change. Disqus is not broke, either. It just works differently. There was still no need to change. But with the change being made, and given that only I and seattleite have posted at the new Haloscan thread--I presume there are some posting at the old one but I'm having trouble reaching that through this maze of links--the discussion ought to continue here for the time being. Google will be caching these pages soon, as with the Haloscan pages and so new visitors will find all this work sooner rather than later. And especially when the story ramps up into greater prominence.

I'm not feeling well about this, however. I spent WAY too much time over the past two days coming to grips with the formats, learning what works (thanks, Squiggle & for those still confused read Steve's headers but then also read Squiggle's post here on Days 1 & 2) & how to make what works work for me. Which is why I stated in reply to the Kid Genius who started this, it was too much bloody work. Yes, too much like work, and work is one of my personal issues right now. I intend to be in read-mode-only for a while with an occasional post or reply (famous last words) as over-committing to a "hobby" is not what I need to do; it should be an outlet and not my focus of hours. Then too, I can't produce quality work like Kermit's PP Slides!! (Go find link below & download it! Understanding the total environment, the landscape, is something we lose sight of using flat maps and kermit's is multiple window onto that understanding.)

Be posting with you. May true justice be done in this case. (& for Kat & Molly, too, though there is no mystery there, just the same deep family loss the Kerchers suffer now.)

chrischris · 2 years ago

Hi all , you do know that people are also commenting in the old haloscan thread too.Even though I like the old haloscan thread, This one does load easier for me , so I will be at both places I guess.


I find it odd too that they are searching again now.

let me repost here what steve huff said.

Xin, your recent repeated complaints are a little less weighty since they reveal a few things --

* you must be coming straight to the Disqus-hosted thread, and bypassing the blog completely

* how do I know? I reverted the blog back to the haloscan system SEVERAL HOURS AGO and put up an entry about it in a different font color just so people would notice. And they have noticed, based on comments received there.

I AM WRITING A WEBLOG HERE, NOT RUNNING A MESSAGE BOARD. I MADE A CHANGE THAT I FELT MANY USERS MIGHT LIKE. SOME DID NOT. FOR REASONS I EXPLAIN ON THE WEBLOG, I DECIDED TO GO BACK TO HALOSCAN.

A pet peeve of mine since I began blogging has been readers don't even bother to check the blog, they go to the comments and whale away. Why is this a pet peeve? For one thing, I'm a writer -- there's a reason I do this. I write. I even get paid for it by other folks now. If you're not reading the blog entries, which are clearly fluid, what with updates, etc, then what the hell am I doing? Running a message board. I'm not interested in that.

This forum is now completely a choice of yours, one you can take or leave. I've linked it from "Steve's Links." The blog posts have the old haloscan comments back, including all your previous posts. Go back to using them if you want to talk about the case and don't bother using this again. Or not.

reply

RobertM · 2 years ago

chrischris Just link per Squiggles recommendations several days ago to prior post, please don't quote the whole thing. This format "kills" white psace pixels enough as it is. Thanks.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Thanks, chrischris

annarbor · 2 years ago

The statements by RS' lawyers might have just been a defense attorney's ploy to show that the investigation has not been conducted as thoroughly as it should...Or might've been a stab(sorry--no pun intended) in the dark.

My initial suspicion was that perhaps RS told his attorneys that the real murder weapon (Which is definitely NOT the butter knife-Ha!) could be found there, knowing that someone else's (RG's? Mystery Person?)fingerprints were on it. I was thinking that it could be similar to AK pointint our Rudy's mess in order to point the LE in his direction.

I am the first to admit that I certainly don't have the answer to any of this....Guess I've just learned to be suspicious.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Loz, what do the emperor's accolytes shout when they see him walking around without anything covering his private parts? What fine clothes!!!
It's the same thing with AK's lawyers. She can't think of any good replies, bursts out crying and zips her mouth, so her lawyers proclaim she is cooperating completely.

Loz · 2 years ago

I guess. LOL I just thought the hearing was too good to be true lol

annarbor · 2 years ago

Good analogy, Kermit--Does seem as though AK is much less serene these days.

I think she thought that she would be out of prison quickly, and that isn't happening. She sounds much more fragile, which is, Im sure what the investigators want. CW would say these are draconian, Vatican hold-over tactics. He might be right, but without really harming her physically, ILE does seem to be breaking down her defenses.

Loz & Kermit, Are you 2 staying here, going back, or traveling between the two (Haloscan/Disqus)?

Loz · 2 years ago

personally I'd like to stay here, cos it's quicker to refresh.
I can do flitting between the two. but now i find out that there is yet ANOTHER haloscan comments page tat only chrischris&seattleite know of?

confusing.

chrischris · 2 years ago

It is not unusual for investigators to revisit crime scenes, but the fact that they found such obvious stuff as another bloody tissue, and the butter knife, leads me to believe that they were not thorough enough before.

I find it odd that RS said MK ate at his house before. That to me is the most incriminating thing he has said. He said that in his diary correct???

chrischris · 2 years ago

OK now I really have to run: This is a new article italian AGI, english version--to busy to give link. see ya later


AGI) - Perugia, Dec 18 - "All I can say is that the shoeprint isn't there anymore, I believe it was very latent, very faint and therefore not visible anymore" said Saverio Potenza, expert for Raffaele Sollecito, while leaving the house were Meredith Kercher was killed. This morning around noon another on-the-spot investigation is being carried out in the house, in the presence of experts and lawyers of the suspects. Lawyer Tiziano Tedeschi showed the investigators a knife, which was found near the house, and some handkerchiefs, apparently with blood stains (the investigators however don't consider these elements important, also in the light of the rain of the past days in Perugia), but now the expert claims that the lack of shoeprint could have an impact on the position of Raffaele Sollecito. To journalist asking questions about a possible pollution of the crime scene, Professor Potenza responds: "I don't think the print can be evaporated, this is all I can say". Still it has to be underlined that investigators explained that any type of print is moulded, which scientifically explains why the imprint doesn't stay visible.

Kermit · 2 years ago

Anna, a half hour ago I was going to make a cynical comment about hoping that the ILE have accounted for all house keys, or that they keep a cop posted at the house 24 hours a day. This takes the cake!

Kermit · 2 years ago

Loz, forget the butter knife! My fault for bringing it up.

There's the sharp kitchen knife which was found at RS's place with AK's and the victim's DNA on it. This is a photo of it:
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?e0cd...
(You've all seen that, haven't you? Or have I been sitting on that?)

And there's the new kitchen knife found today
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?ce51...

annarbor · 2 years ago

- Perugia, Dec 18 - "All I can say is that the shoeprint isn't there anymore, I believe it was very latent, very faint and therefore not visible anymore" said Saverio Potenza, expert for Raffaele Sollecito, while leaving the house were Meredith Kercher was killed.

OMG--How can this be? In a case this important, how could this be allowed to happen? Certainly this evidence, KEY EVIDENCE, geeez-- the only real, forensic evidence linking RS to the crime--has been preserved!

This makes No sense. They weren't planning on basing their case against RS only on the actual flooring in the house? And you're right

"but now the expert claims that the lack of shoeprint could have an impact on the position of Raffaele Sollecito"
This is tooo crazy...If this could happen, you are right, Kermit. Who knows whether someone has been in the house to tamper with evidence there. In light of what they are finding today, you have to wonder about the "Forensic Experts" that have been in charge!

annarbor · 2 years ago

Im glad that you're all staying here. I haven't had any big issues with this site, it refreshes more quickly and I appreciate the effort from Steve H to host us. Welcome, livnnlrnin. Jump right in--
Loz, I think that the bathroom blood evidence was both blood from AK on the sink/tap and the blood of AK and MK in the bidet. I thought that all this was found in the bath next to the bedroom, but am not 100% sure of that.

Loz · 2 years ago

annarbor on blood:

thank you :)

BubbaJaK · 2 years ago

What do all the thinkers here make of the Amanda interview yesterday, where she refuses to comment on why she originally implicated PL? She has to have a concrete reason, and has not said what that is. I think when (if) we find out, it is significant. And also, when they have pinpointed the questions on how she described too many crime scene details that only are known by the murderer/accomplice, and she again refuses to speak . . . hmmm . . . well, lets give her another 30 or 60 or 90 days in the cold, damp prison. She will come around.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Tests on knife found near Meredith's house
Updated: 5:51pmGMT 18/12/2007

Italian police investigating the murder of British student Meredith Kercher are examining whether a knife, found today near the house where she was killed, could be the murder weapon.


Police have now discovered two knives
The police have sent the small knife, which was non-serrated and with a rounded tip, for forensic testing in Rome.

It was discovered in the undergrowth in the valley behind the British student’s house.

The area had already been searched by the police, but sources close to the investigation said that the knife had been "deliberately hidden".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=...

Looks as though they are considering that knife a possiblity...Again it makes me wonder about RS' lawyers being adamant a few weeks back about a new search of the "underbrush surrounding the house".
Things seem to be going RS's way today.

RobertM · 2 years ago

HEY, EVERYONE!!!!!!

Lets get back on the same pathway so we can continue an actual discussion, especially in regards today's events.

Why not start by going over to the NEW Halsoscan Open Thread page Steve has started at http://tinyurl.com/2ykcxa

There's a lot more gray pixels to kill over there. And do consider moving your posts and links done here, so we don't have to go back and forth among 3 threads!!!! Two is exhausting and 3 is unmanageable. One is Best.

I would suggest starting by moving everything posted here from 1st 12/16 post, but really the ones with links are most imporatn. This is directed at AndyT and Kermit especially.

PLEASE

I am now going to post a similar request over the Haloscan thread #2.

PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP

annarbor · 2 years ago

I agree, RobertM! It would be great to get everyone on the same page (literally!) again. I couldn't find anyone when I tried to move before, and I hadn't struggled with this format...But its too quiet here. As far as moving posts--?

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

RobertM: You can't just move the links by copy and pasting the post to HaloScan because often the are truncated and the copy function can't pick up the truncated portion. So copy and paste the whole thread to Halscan but do not hit publish, then come back launch each link, copy from the browsers link URL window, go back to HaloScan post and copy paste the true length over the truncated one pasted before. (Don't wipe out any of the body of the post). After all links re copied to HaloScan, hit Publish in HaloScan

RobertM · 2 years ago

And AGAIN

HEY, EVERYONE!!!!!!

Lets get back on the same pathway so we can continue an actual discussion, especially in regards today's events.

Why not start by going over to the NEW Halsoscan Open Thread page Steve has started at
http://tinyurl.com/2kftvc?

etc, for which see below or abo ve, however you've got this set up.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Loz, Kermit and chrischris,

Hope to see you at the new link as posted by RobertM

RobertM · 2 years ago

Have a Happy & Healing Hiatus, Steve!

This IS worde than herding cats: OK start moving links from today's stories. For those who don't know how to use tinyurl, here is its web-site: http://tinyurl.com/ Become familiar with it, as some of the stories will have nested upon nested listings.

For your entertainment, reposted here from the New Haloscan Thread:

ANOTHER Veddy British Crime Story
from likely early in 2006. The TIMES ran a series of very droll yet strictly factual pieces on this case.

Summary: The retired physician wife confronted the husband's so-called mistress in her Oxbridge rooms with a smallish tea knife over her alienation of said husband's affections. It would have been a true farce if it wasn't a real felony assault in that the mistress's one eye socket got cut up very badly. The physician wife got close to 3 years and probation, the mistress was ambivalently saddened & was done with the husband, and the husband showed himself to be a total dithering fool, not understanding at all how his uncommunicative behavior had brought two women to near total ruin. I'd have decked him on the spot if I was his kid or the wife's relative.

It seems he'd abandoned the marital bed a full decade before (wife aged 52 & a busy practice) and taken up with the professional who became his mistress on hopes of being able to sustain an erection. But as it soon became evident that he couldn't do that with her either, and he refused to see a regular MD over it all, he and mistress took to doing crossword puzzles over tea. Very cozy, new companion, no demands. The physician wife kept thinking he was having sex with the mistress & so her rejection level mounted and mounted, until she invited herself over to the Other Women's offices for tea and brought her own knife with her.

And so, a Good Woman, someone who's done more good in the world than I, is currently sitting in an HM prison doing who knows what over a crime that should never have happened but did, because she loved the fool her husband so much that she didn't want a divorce. Sheesh. I can only hope that the grown children are NOT talking to him. Total low-grade narcissist. The Times reporter let the husband hang himself with his own key words. A fine piece of reporting.

LADIES--> Divorce them, have your own affairs, just do not use knives, guns or rat poison, despite how much they deserve it. Ain't worth the blot on your good name, nor sucking down taxpayer's money by being in prison that could go elsewhere.

OK cats, keep moving.

amy · 2 years ago

Hey, this discussion keeps on moving, I don't know where you guys are, why not to continue on perugia-shock which doesn't change and is case-dedicated?
Would they allow us?

chrischris · 2 years ago

O.K.-- I am at a new computer. I googled steve huff and saw a blog from him I didnt see before. He is officially keeping his blog and comments BACK AT HALASCON--see below a few posts for robert m link to where everyone is!!!!

I am going there, but I must say, I would have been happy enough here. Steve indicates that he will have us all back here, after this place is out of the beta stage (testing).

Thank you all for pointing me to where everyone is going. Geez, this is confusing. But, now it is resolved. One place and then when steve tells us, we come back to here. For now not here anyomore,but at the new open thread as Robert M gave us the URl a few posts down.

annarbor · 2 years ago

Loz,

You're welcome(blood evidence)!

. I could've stayed here happily, but miss the rest of the posters. Hope you're coming too!

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Per RobertM suggestion above, again here is the "new" HaloScan thread started by Steve on 12/17/07.

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...

A lot of our posters have gone back to HaloScan and a lot remain here because they like the features of the disqus system. So do I. And though it does work when you understand how it works and get up to speed on it, it still isn't ready for prime time in its loading and refreshing speed and cache management. On the other hand many posters found the change difficult to adapt to and many would not have had an easy start up learning curve. This led to frustration and disruption of their critical thinking skills and with lost posts and all, even their usual sense of humor. So they were glad to return to the HaloScan. Since those of us who have stayed here are somewhat more technical savvy and adaptable to sudden change, going back to HaloScan would not be similarly disruptive because we have all been there for the past six weeks of the blog. Thus I think it would be a courtesy for those who prefer disqus to move back to HaloScan so we can all sort of be on the same page again. (pun intended).

HaloScan III loads fast because it is new and not a very big file for now. But certainly it is your choice. I myself will be checking in here each time I log on to the thread to read but will try to concentrate most of my posts after tonight on the HaloScan thread. Hope to see you there.

In addition, for those of you who may have lost the original two HaloScan URL links here they are so you can load them and bookmark them again. Call the newest thread HaloScan I I I just for reference.

Haloscan I postings dated from 11/06/07 to ~11/30/07 with a few trailing posts up through 12/07 can be found here:

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...

HaloScan I is great for going back to find links to media reports, videos, and other evidence developments and your and others old posts and links.

Haloscan II postings are dated from 11/26/07 - 12/18/07 (today). Steve started this second comments thread because HaloScan I became so large it took half the night to reload after each post. But remember HaloScan always takes you back to page top (no pagination) so you still get to do scroll happiness on Haloscan. Here is the link to HaloScan II.

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Reposting a reply to Kermit and Loz who were discussing the video of MK and AK's bedrooms. I buried in your thread. Here it is in flat. I also saw a wardrobe in AK room but it was smaller a single door. MK's was larger and appeared to have two doors. Any hope my describe of what I saw in the video helps in your re-sketch of the flats floor plan. That ppt sketch really helped me thanks again Kermit.

coyotewaits —Yesterday 11:54 PM with 1 point

One thing I note is that it sure doesn't look like AK's bedroom is cleaned up. I mean how can you bleach every where when there are books and papers all over the desk and clothes all over the bed and floor. This story about a bleach clean up of AK's room is BS. There might not have been any prints there but it wasn't cleaned up.. No prints = she hardly spent any time there in the past two weeks.

Second: Loz, keen eye. The wardrobe is in the opposite corner from the bed corner. The bed is adjacent (in the corner) to two walls, the long side of the bed to the wall with the radiator below the window. Adjacent to the wall space to the left of the radiator and window is one side of wardrobe which back is to the opposite wall from the head of the bed.

Thus when found on the floor covered by the duvet, her head would had been towards towards the night stand adjacent to the head of the bed (not shown) and her feet would have been towards the radiator/window direction with the wardrobe just to the left of her feet. Her right side would have been parallel to the open side of the bed. An easy position if she was on her knees facing the radiator to drag her backwards after a knife blow and drop her upper torso and head to the floor after only two to three feet of dragging.

I'm thinking forensic LE may have observed blood flow on the floor from in front of the wardrobe to the spot where her head & neck was dropped to the floor. Or she might herself tried to crawl back, I wouldn't speculate. But this makes sense if in fact she was killed in front of the wardrobe and then moved.

The question is, what is the blood pattern evidence. Again we don't know and police haven't told. Why. They don't want her lawyers to know so they can advise her interview answers to questions about her talking about MK being found next to the wardrobe.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Concluding my session: I have moved a number of others posters posts and links here within disqus over to the new HaloScan thread, what I have designated as HaloScan III.

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...

Given that I support the effort by RobertM to settle on one thread so we can all continue to be stimulated by the super critical thinking offered by everyone as they have in the past. Think one big giant super computer being equalized and bettered by 100 high powered PC posters with dual quad processors and gbyte memory modules linked together as parallel processors. Beats big blue (the ILE) any day, well, at least the Italian press. That's what we are even though we had a double whammy here in the last three days. A sudden bump in the software application and an even bigger bump in the crime case with Foxy Knoxy's latest interrogation and the new visit by the forensic investigator to the crime scene house.

So be sure to go see which posts of yours I moved over. Then come back and move more of yours over so all can get caught up and keep the dialog cool, erh, Hot! :-)

Get the latest over on the HaloScan III, the newest Meredith Kercher murder thread by Steve's Huff's True Crime Blog. Dot not forget to stop in daily to check out Steve's latest wriitng. The link for Meredith's thread is right there amongst other great threads. See it here.

http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/2007_12_16_archi...

See you there!!!

Loz · 2 years ago

I am on Haloscan3 now but will check back here. People are talking about AKs 'fractured' personalities. And maybe she does have them. but here is something interesting about her 'male side' coming out that night (posted on haloscan3: ,Also Robert M, having a 'masculine' aspect wouldn't necessarily mean that it is murdurous? - I guess that's why RM still says AK is responsible? And what I find really interesting is on that day that the male in amanda 'came out', she was actually wearing a skirt... I am not sure that she is 'fractured', my guess is she's just a lying socio/psycho. also, some women just have 'higher' testosterone levels than other women. While the hormone can affect psychlogy, I don't know that it'd automaically make you a rapist or murdress
8" filleting knife: http://www.cookware.co.uk/shop?code=2098 10" salmon knife http://www.premiercutlery.co.uk/show_item/kitch...

Luke · 2 years ago

Hi gang!

Looks like the only thing new around here has been the board changes. Seriously, outside of the discovery of the 2nd knife, it feels like groundhog day. I know a lot of evidence places all three (Rudy, Amanda, and Rafe) at the scene of the crime, but I wonder whether or not we will ever know what really happened in the cottage that night.

Question for our Italian friends:

Under Italian law, is this evidence truly enough to convict each of the suspects to lengthy prison sentences?

chrischris · 2 years ago

Robert M

Both amanda and RS said that Amanda took back a bag or something with her so that she could do her laundrey when she went back to her flat in the morning to take a shower.

RobertM · 2 years ago

OK. True. A CONSISTENT statement from both. However, it is repeatedly stated in two links that the clothes being washed were NOT Amanda's, but rather Meredith's.

Amanda has NOT said/written--AS FAR AS WE KNOW--the following: "Well, I got home and went straight to the washing machine, and saw that there were clothes already in it. I recognized them as Meredith's. I called her name but got no response. So, rather than take them to do mine, I [checked for cleanser/added cleanser and] turned the machine on."

Which would be a normal, courteous thing to do. But so far--as far as we know--she has said no such thing. But also, ALSO, we don't know if ILE has even asked her this question. We don't know the series or ranges of interrogation questions, and I'm not talking about the questions on the night of the 4th & early on the 5th.

I'm talking about the questions posed by the ME to the flatmates on Sunday, Nov. 3. This revist was referenced in newspaper articles on Monday, Nov. 4. What were the questions and what were the answers?

chrischris · 2 years ago

Robert M-- please don't encourage people to do the "reply" thing. Geez, then you have to change from "flat" to "threaded" to see the interchange, which I am sure we all want to obeserve.

Fran-- I agree that witness leak to put pressure. But, also, I do recall seeing this leak a long time ago, it just never got momentum in the press. Am I remembering wrongly?

Squiggle · 2 years ago

chris^2, please don't encourage people not to do the 'reply' thing. See my posts:

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

and perhaps also

http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

In fact, perhaps just click on my icon and read the various posts I've made over the last 24 hours on how to use this new site effectively (not denying that it has its faults).

fran · 2 years ago

The leak you are writing about refers to a woman hearing a scream later in the night -- at 2 am - together with another witness statement about noises heard from the house also later in the night

sparrow · 2 years ago

"Rudy, who was too lazy and bullheaded to adapt to the lifestyle of his adopted family, has the balls to claim he was framed because of his race. What a loser. He deserves everything he's got coming."

Sounds like you're talking about someone you know.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

I am also missing a users currently logged in window on this blog. I also saw a post on their tech forum that they would consider a control for the owner to block anonymous posters. I vote thumbs up on that.

coyotewaits · 2 years ago

Crobinator: My sincere apologies to you for my posts that became ad-hominem comments (though Steve deleted them). I will just continue to ignore the point system and you and those who like it can enjoy it. And I will also just try to stay on topic and adapt as best I can to this new format which is obviously what Steve wishes.

crobinator · 2 years ago

please don't confuse my explanation of the points as liking them. i just wanted to share what i've learned in the process of using the points so future commenters don't leave steve's blogs because of them, and have the option to enjoy the changes.

though i think if people leave his site due to the commenting system, they aren't really here for the content anyway.