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Open Thread: The Murder of Meredith Kercher

Started by stevehuff · 1 year ago

<div style="text-align: justify;">For this inaugural open thread using the new commenting system, I'd like to suggest readers discuss the "Foxy Knoxy" murder -- the alleged murder of Briton Meredith Kercher by Rudy Hermann Guede, Amanda Knox, and Raffaele Sollecito. Click here ... Continue reading »

974 comments

  • meman

    1 year ago

    so how many points do you need to get .... to get something like a coffee pot for instance?........
    reply
  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    You can totally ignore the points, if you like. I don't think they're too important.
    reply
  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    Ok -- here you go -- sorry for the delay -- I'd somehow set this particular entry to "no comments, hide existing."

    I'm tired.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Hi, just testing. Sorry.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Hi guys. I need to get something off my chest. Sorry for the abruptness, but I can't hang around much longer tonight. I hope you will all consider what I write below:

    1. Neither Rudy, Raf, or Amanda committed murder that night. None were involved in violence against Meredith.

    2. Most of what Rudy says is the truth. He leaves out some details of what happened that night, and also the name of the killer, which he knows. Fran referenced some articles earlier that say that in a taped conversation RG admitted to his father that he knew the name of the killer but was too afraid to reveal it.

    3. The real killer is known to all of them, at least by sight and reputation. He is someone to really fear.

    4. This case would be much simpler for the police if it were just a case of finding out which of these kids killed MK. But the truth is much more dangerous and difficult.

    Okay, If we believe Rudy, everything starts to make more sense. It causes us to see AK, RS, and even RG the way people who know them see them, as young people incapable of such violence. When we thought they could have been killers, especially Amanda, we had to stretch our imagination, but we did so because we thought the evidence pointed to them. With Rudy's story, we don't have to stretch anymore. Amanda is just an unwise, promiscuous girl. RS is just a fool for a girl, and RG is so, so unlucky always. The person who stabbed MK in the neck is a hardened criminal. Now it does all make sense.

    Patrick mentioned that he was afraid of firing Amanda, afraid of repercussions of some sort. When I read that I thought he just meant she wouldn't bring her friends there anymore. It might be more than that. In describing how difficult it was to have her as an employee, he said that he, as her boss, was even told by one of the fellows with whom she was flirting to to leave her alone. I think the implication was that he had to back down.

    The police should be looking for that person, or men like him, men with whom Amanda associated who were real criminals, men who everyone is a little afraid of. Not like Rudy, who I would guess no one is afraid of.

    Please consider these things. Ciao.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    Interesting suggestion, Sparrow. If the unknown person is so dangerous, why did Rudy go dancing after he fled the scene of the crime? Also, to believe him one would have to believe his tale of Meredith's affection towards him.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Couldn't stay away. Pinecone... Quickly... the unknown person didn't kill RG. He didn't have to. He's pretty sure RG will keep his mouth shut. The unknown person may be connected, that's why he's so daring. He can get away with things. Sorry, but this is Italy. Rudy went dancing because he just lived through a nightmare. It must have seemed so unreal, yet he couldn't deny it. He went dancing to revisit the life he loved, the innocent one, dancing and laughing with pretty girls, one last time, before he ran away.

    I have no problem believing Meredith liked him. That joke he told her about sucking his blood because she lost her cup was so cute and clever. If I were a girl, dressed like a vampire at a party, and a guy said that to me, and if he presented himself as cutely as the joke is, I would have laughed out loud. I get the picture Rudy is very likable. Why did that rich man take pity on him? I've seen quotes from friends that say he's very nice. And his complaint about being portrayed as a drug dealer might be valid. That may be overblown. He's a student. Maybe he has sold some drugs on a small scale, maybe he's been found with some, but he may not be a hardcore criminal. Maybe he's more like Amanda. You think she's never sold any on a casual basis? Provided some?

    Anyway I have no problem with the idea that they flirted at the party. He said they kissed. It might have been a real kiss, it might have been a peck on the cheek. In Italy everyone kisses on the cheek. But if she didn't have special feelings for him, maybe he exaggerated it because he liked her. Guys do that all the time.

    Maybe she was just being nice to him and he imagined it more. Maybe he said he wanted to come over to her house and she said "Okay," being all vague and nice, while he was being specific. These kind of things happen all the time, you know that.

    Or maybe she really liked him and did arrange to meet him, but she wasn't ready to tell her friends. That happens too.

    The story of affection between them may not be true, but I have no problem believing it (a week ago I would have though). But I think that when Rudy talks now of HIS affection it's very real. He watched her die. He's bonded to her forever. Her tragedy... I'm sure many people writing on this blog cry for Meredith sometimes. I'm sure he cries every night for her. Take a look at his recent photos.
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Interesting Sparrow. But it has been reported that he was stabbed in a fight over drugs in a square in Perugia -- not a casual drug dealer sort of thing. It has also been reported that he has been arrested for b&e on at least two (and maybe three) occassions in the last 6 months. Those would be the times he was got.

    The psychology of the b&e criminal is very scary. No psychological or physical boundry applies to them.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    What is b&e?
    reply
  • frangi

    1 year ago

    break and enter
    reply
  • kb

    1 year ago

    Rudy may have gone dancing to prove to the 'really bad guy' how nonchalant he was about it (before he skedaddled out of town in fear). He also may be lying about why he went there initially. Perhaps he did go to meet Amanda, or... who knows? But showing some human decency afterwards (if true) doesn't meanwe must believe his story of a consensual relationship.

    This scenario, however, does not take into account Rudy's DNA in/on Meredith.

    kb
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    I have a problem with this DNA evidence. Mostly this is because they say there was no blood on her legs. There's no way this could have happened with her wounds, unless she was clothed when she was killed. That's why I believe Rudy when he says he didn't rape her and she was still dressed in her jeans when he left.

    So I do still believe there was a "clean up" and or altering of the crime scene after Rudy left. And maybe this is where AK and RS come into the picture. They are involved somehow. They are also afraid. Remember, AK is probably the reason this dangerous character is in the house (unless he is there because of the residents of the apt. below).

    When RS complains about "helping" people, I think he's talking about AK. She came to him with this problem. She's involves somehow in this scene that went out of hand and turned to murder. Maybe this guy is so dangerous and protected that they too don't want to tell the police. So, RS helps her cover up things, so she doesn't have to tell police anything about this other guy. If it were simply a mystery rape, perpetrated by someone else, she's free and clear. Now RS says he wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for AK, and he says it's better to save yourself and not help others sometimes.

    Back to the DNA. I think I've read on this blog that in this preliminary stage, evidence like DNA evidence can merely be mentioned, but needn't be proven to pass the rigorous standards they have in a final trial. This DNA evidence may prove not to be real, or conclusive. Or it may be a result of contamination in the lab (it happens), or it may have been planted. What form did this DNA come from? Was it skin, semen, shit? We don't know.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    What clean up?
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    AK showered in the bloodied bathroom - so, AKs clean up.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "I have a problem with this DNA evidence. Mostly this is because they say there was no blood on her legs. There's no way this could have happened with her wounds, unless she was clothed when she was killed. That's why I believe Rudy when he says he didn't rape her and she was still dressed in her jeans when he left."

    Check out the second paragraph below.

    http://www.agi.it/italy/news/200712141908-cro-r...

    "those judging the review...have heard - in addition to the defence - the reconstruction of the grounds for the charge and the comments by the magistrate on the "relationship/non-relationship" between Rudy and Meredith. The two allegedly did not have any date the evening before 1 November simply because on that date they had not even met."

    "The bloodied fingerprint on the pillow found next to Meredith, the DNA traces on the vaginal swab carried out as part of the autopsy and epithelial ones found in the bathroom are the mark left by Rudy Hermann Guede in the house..."
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Pinecone, it's true we must keep in mind all that the judges say, but we know already that some of the things they've said have proven already not to be true, and they have adjusted for that. Patrick is a case in point. And some things they maintain, I am sure you don't agree with, like the assessment of Amanda as one who is dangerous and can incite others to commit violence, or whatever she said.

    I don't know how they concluded that R and M never met. They might conclude differently later.

    The bloody thumbprint, yeah it's his. He had blood all over his hands because he tried to help her, he said. The bathroom, he was there. The vaginal swab? I explained my problem with that. She was dressed when she was killed.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "The vaginal swab? I explained my problem with that. She was dressed when she was killed. "

    But she was not dressed when she was found. And Rudy's DNA was found on vaginal swabs.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Yes. I don't believe he assaulted her after she was killed. You may, but I don't. So the DNA on the vaginal swab is one of those pieces of evidence I will doubt.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "The person who stabbed MK in the neck is a hardened criminal."

    I think he is. I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's killed other women. He also left his DNA in the victim and all around the crime scene. Why didn't Rudy's "real dangerous man" have a dangerous weapon? Rudy says he was armed with a very thin instrument that had only a narrow, sharp tip. The description matches the wounds on the victim and the wound on Rudy's palm. The knife from RS's kitchen was too wide to have been the murder weapon.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    "Why didn't Rudy's "real dangerous man" have a dangerous weapon? Rudy says he was armed with a very thin instrument that had only a narrow, sharp tip."

    That sounds like real dangerous weapon to me. Rudy said it made a very deep cut, and it was very sharp.
    reply
  • amy

    1 year ago

    hi Steve, just wanted to ask how to download a video from youtube.
    I'm asking you cause I've seen you made it with all videos of this case.
    Thanks
    reply
  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    Amy, go here:

    http://www.techcrunch.com/get-youtube-movie/

    The file will download as a .flv extension. You will then need to convert it to .avi or .mpg in order to re-upload it to your own YouTube acct. To handle .flv files and to do conversions. you can try:

    http://tinyurl.com/9xyy6

    Total Video Converter -- that's what I've used, and it's done the job just fine. To break it down:

    1. Download YouTube vid you want via techcrunch tool
    2. Download the Total Video Converter -- or any similar program
    3. If you want to use the .flv file, the Total Video Converter will play it
    4. If you want to re-upload to your own YouTube, you will have to convert the video to .avi or .mpeg and upload it.

    Lather, rinse, repeat...
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    OK cw, here are the instructions

    HOW TO LINK EXPLICITLY TO ANOTHER POST


    1. Hover over the user icon beside the post you wish to link to. You will get a little menu that includes the item "Permalink".
    2. Right-click on the Permalink item to bring up a menu. This will let you select "Copy Link Location" (or similar, depending on which browser you use).
    3. Paste the link into the post you are creating.
    4. Important: Edit out the part of the link between the final "/" and the "#". This will look something like "?s=oldest&v=threaded". If you don't do this, the link will cause the page to be regenerated with your sort and view preferences, not the other users'.

    (Reposted as new to allow threaded users to see it easily, and to allow for points :) )
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    Another gotcha (and partial solution). Copying the whole link URL is a problem, since some users are viewing at http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/2007/12/open-thr... and others at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t.... Using the whole URL from the Permalink will cause other users who click on it to be directed to the version of the page you are using.

    PARTIAL SOLUTION Use relative URLs. This means actually writing some HTML. Here I have created a link to the parent of this post. The HTML code I embedded to do this was:

    <a href="#comment-36779">link to the parent of this post</a>

    (but still this fails when the posts are not on the same page in the paginated version. Still trying and testing...)
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    I've come to the conclusion that the Parent and Permalink links are fundamentally broken in the embedded, paginated version. They don't work even "as intended" if the post they link to is not on the same page. You can demonstrate this by finding a post where the parent is not on the same page. Hovering and selecting "Parent" simply doesn't work - and the reason why is clear to anyone with an elementary understanding of HTML. Another reason not to use the paginated version folks. Stick with http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    OK Squiggle: I just upped your points to 5 (highest I've seen to date) after reading this latest thread. Congrats! *laughs* that my medals were all stolen by a b & e 'er.

    But now I am a bit confused again. I am using the //true.crimewebblog.disqus etc. version but does that still cause the instructions you previously listed to give a follow up reader a "false page" link or "other page" link. Relative links I understand but that is going to be a manual HTML entry after looking up the URL. Just more confusion for a bunch of amateur sleuths as myself.

    Xin is right! This is beta software and not the best. Seems as though we could possibly be the best beta team they might encounter. Would hope Steve or someone might update them to our efforts. *lol*
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    cw: "I am using the //true.crimewebblog.disqus etc. version but does that still cause the instructions you previously listed to give a follow up reader a "false page" link or "other page" link?"

    No, they're currently the best we can do. What it will do is cause users of the embedded, paginated, version to be redirected here when they click on one of your links. On balance, not a bad thing.

    Also, there will be no broken links if they're directed here, whereas there sometimes will be with relative URLs when accessed via the paginated version.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Only GEEKS would never think of end users & HIDE all this stuff behind an icon. My Dad used dial-up for inventory in 1969, and I've been coding since Os & 1s. But to offer this functionality as an Easter Egg Hunt is stupid, stupid, stupid. EDN rant. Go To <Top of Thread>.
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    Hey! Only DUMB geeks would do this. I've been coding since I entered machine code in hex 25 years ago. I supervise student software engineering projects every year. This sort of insane non-visibility (cf. Donald Norman, 'The Design of Everyday Things' (http://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Do...)) is the kind of thing I would come down on like a tonne of bricks.
    reply
  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    You all can use html. You can also vote comments up or down, but I hope you'll be fair there. It will help you ignore trolls, I'll tell you that much. I'm still farting around with the look, but I really like it so far.
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    cheer up coyotewaits.................don't feel bad................I only have 3 points
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Four meman...I like your posts.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    hey meman, i just gave you one, so the total climb to five, hhhmm 3 +1 = 5. Sort like the equation of the evidence in this case so far.
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    lol thanks .............................point for you to........Have a great day
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    OK pinecone, seattleite, et al...

    I want to ask, please reply :):-

    * Do you think AK was there that night at the time of the murder?

    * What was she doing during the murder (your guess?)?

    * What did she do that night/morning after the murder(again your guess)?
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    * Do you think AK was there that night at the time of the murder?

    * What was she doing during the murder (your guess?)?

    * What did she do that night/morning after the murder(again your guess)?

    I don't know, I used to think she was, but doubt it now. If she was there, the assault was in progress when Amanda entered the house.

    She left when she heard the screams and wandered back to RS's house.

    The next morning she did exactly what she said she did.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    pinecone, thanks for answering. so either way you're not certain if she was there or not.

    The crime couldn't have been already in progress as she entered because CCTV & witness statements re: MKs arrival puts her there at 8:40-ish before MK.

    Unless you mean, she arrived, went out for 9 at the basketball court, ALL while stoned off her face, came back, the crime was in progress then.

    OR came back, smoked dope or whatever she 'did'. THEN the crime happened.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "The crime couldn't have been already in progress as she entered because CCTV & witness statements re: MKs arrival puts her there at 8:40-ish before MK."

    That's all speculation.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Granted.
    But still, I have noted both you and seattleite do not say AK was definitely not there during the crime.
    thanks :)
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Pinecone,
    it is looking more and more likely that RHG is very violent, and guilty, I agree. IMHO AK is more involved in this than just being a passive innocent by-stander though. I don't know what to make if the bra thing, and if that means as some have suggested half/full necrophilia, or if he was part of some of the staging?
    I don't know why he first denied she was there, I think she help set up the situation, and the prospect as RHG said was appealing to him. I don't know if he stabbed her though, as I can't see why he's use a piece of glass, it's illogical. He obviously wasn't there to ransack the property, at least 1 knife if not two were involved, so that to me screams premed, even if it was just planned an hour earlier, it's premed IMHO. They had knives, they were 'ready to go'.
    Erm, as I said I am squemish but my mum has sky-plussed(point of contention) loads of csis that I am clearing off on to DVD today. Anyway, in this one episode there was no blood splatter initially from a victim because the weapon was left in their throat for a short time.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Here's how RHG could have been responsible for the whole thing on his own or with 'homies' & how the mushroom might go against this theory (discarding the 2 bloodied footprints, evidence of a clean up, cctv placing AK there, witness statements about other people, the 2am arguing, AK not using her key to open MKs door, the knife with AK&MKs dna etc).

    * MK lets herself into her house (she is not ambushed outside by RHG cos she has mushrooms)
    further, I find it strange that if she lt rhg in for a rondevous she'd eat cheese & mushrooms with him, unless she did so before he came - unlikely cos of digestion time of mushrooms & time of death.
    * RHG has broken in before (but MK hasn't noticed and how did RHG move to other rooms to ransack without a key) or after (and MK would have had to lead him to her room for the money - toilet soiling goes against this too cos it's more likely imho he pottied before the ambush).
    * MK eats mushroom meal on her own (why, if they didn't, did the ILE not find the punnet in the house fridge or in the litter bags, why only in RS fridge).
    * She goes to her room & is ambushed on the way by RHG.
    or
    * she answers the doorbell

    I wonder why he went to the house, how he knew or thought it was empty. maybe he came looking for AK. he'd have to have been carrying a knife. or else MK gashed his hand with her dinner or cooking knife, and he later used this.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    and if AK & RS are innocent, they really are acting strangely.
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Loz said 37 minutes ago (or more, I haven't refreshed): thanks for that, so RHG/AK could have got a lift off Bulagaio from RS who went to the car park?

    Here's RS's Audi, parked out front of the police station on Nov. 5. or 6. when he got arrested. I guess Dad had a spare set of keys, otherwise it's still parked there.
    http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?4348...

    Good nite!
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Hi everyone. I don't want to foist anything on anyone, but since AK's declarations today haven't cleared up much, I've done another PowerPoint, of the geography and relation between the girls', RS's and RHG's houses.

    My own bias (all three are involved in someway in different aspects of Nov. 1 p.m.) shows through. Even those who support other scenarios may get something out of the PPT.

    Download it at:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?5kwcoj9jm0j
    (I hope that becomes clickable when I post. Otherwise, copy and paste that address into your browser. Cheers).
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Kermit: You work is terrific. Your cell phone map is still one of the best pieces of work on this blog. Thanks.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Great work Kermit. I love your sense of humor. I think the Perugia LE could use your analytical and mapping skills
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... Kermit Download it at:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?5kwcoj9jm0j
    (I hope that becomes clickable when I post. Otherwise, copy and paste that address into your browser. Cheers).

    thanks for that, so RHG/AK could have got a lift off Bulagaio from RS who went to the car park?
    reply
  • AndyT

    1 year ago

    Someone smile at me too.
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    Loz: I think they are on some kind of cycle--maybe two weeks or so it seems--to review their stories and to see if their memories have improved. plus they have a shot at getting released. even when RS asked to speak (and then he clammed up) he waited a couple weeks.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    xin: do you not think at this point that AK and RS will have nothing more to say to the judge or investigators based on attorney advice, and that even RG will not say much, if anything more, for the same reason. They have nothing to gain and it would force (I hope) the prosecution to go forward with arrests and a trial sooner, where I am assuming (possibly incorrectly) that the prosecution will have to reveal all their evidence to the court (judges & jurors) and the defense. (Back to that Italian CCP question again)?
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    CW

    I think she will address questions with the attorney trying to keep her in control. I would tell her to STFU but may be they believe she has a chance to go to house arrest or something. Amanda is Amanda's own worst enemy in this case...not because there is loads of proof that she is guilty but because she is Amanda.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    seattleite & others: Is AK's hearing tomorrow 12.17.07? I forgot. If so we haven't long to wait for the next "drama" she may express.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    I think they are releasing chunks of her diary to show she doesn't remember still, as an excuse for her not answering these qustions? we'll find out after if she answered them.

    I think it could shoot them in the foot long-term though, because she can't blame her confusion on the duress of interrogation. Then again, she still has 'stoned/mashed'. BUT, I think the prosecution will show her & RS 'timelines' are very constructed?
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    ah OK. thanks. and every 2 weeks, they can not claim to be under duress on each of those occasions. Thanks Xin
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    CW: So far Amanda seems pretty impetuous...so really...anything can happen at her hearings.
    RS's attorneys have him on a leash, waiting for who-knows-what, and Rudy is scared, well, shitless, as he should be. No one has been charged yet, so there lies ahead a very clear reason to talk.

    The fact that AK and RS are silent begs the opinion that they've got something to be silent about. Neither's past predicts any sort of comfort in being in jail. Aside from everything else, they are poised to become the potential RUIN of their families, if only considering the $$$.
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    PL declined to talk further too. I chalk that up to attorney saying "you got nothing to gain given how they treated you...decline to help them further ensnare you." Amanda does have something to gain...maybe house arrest at the nunnery (all puns intended).
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    seattleite: Yes, agree maybe as the singing nun.....
    reply
  • AndyT

    1 year ago

    The fact that Pinecone and Co. have fallen for AK's "frame him" "alibi" I find really quite shocking. For some time now, AK's strategy had been patently obvious to those with knowledge of the crime facts.
    To frame RHG, AK's strategy was to:
    1. remove all dna apart from RHG's --- she achieved this almost 100 percent by bleaching everything, washing MK's clothes apart from certain "key" items, and disposing of her own bloodied pullover.
    2. tell police that she saw a black man at the scene --- to get them on the "perp's" trail. (She achieved this by saying that she saw PL - he was ideal because he was black like RHG. Of couse she couldn't say it was RHG himself, because that really would have placed her at the crime scene.)
    3. draw attention to the "perp's" DNA --- remember her going on about the shit in the toilet

    It's quite possible that RHG was also involved in the assault, but he - unlike AK - has no motive for the murder. Moreover he has no weapon, because LE have stated from the outset that the stabs were caused by a knife (or knives). Pinecone's "piece of glass" theory is so outrageously nonsensical that it sounds to me like something out of Alice in Wonderland or Harry Potter. Also almost beyond belief is Pinecone's cute idea that MK was assaulted by a single perp. The chances that a perp, acting without accomplices, could have forced MK into oral sex while simultaneously inflicting knife wounds are very small in my view - and this is backed up by the professional literature.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Andy: The reason I have gone over to the Pinecone and Co. is because absolutely no new "solid" (non-circumstantial) evidence as been presented in the last three or four weeks linking AK to being at the crime scene at the agreed period that the assault/murder of MK took place (21:30 - 22:30).
    Please bear with me for my points.
    1) She made a statement to LE, obviously under great interrogation stress (in US it would be unacceptable in court) that she was there in person in the kitchen and heard screams, PL, etc. She later recanted this statement and claimed it was made under duress. Such statements are weak as evidence of guilt.
    2) There is supposedly a CCTV video of her entering the house at exactly 20:38 pm. If that video exists? OK, assume it does. It is hard evidence she entered the house at that time. Where then is the same camera when she exits the house, at what ever time, 23:30, 01:30, or 02:30 the morning of the 02 Nov, or even 21:00 on the 1st just before MK arrives shortly after 21:00?? So this becomes week evidence along with why no CCTV image of an RG or other perp leaving the premise at 22:30. Just eye witnesses, notoriously weak in these kind of cases.
    2a) So being circumstantial, without further camera evidence, as her attorney I weave a scenario for the court. Yes AK met RG at the basketball court at 20:30 on the 1st to buy some hashish. The transaction was completed and she went on to her house at 20:38 to get something else to take back with her to RK's. RG followed her surreptitiously. AK enters house. leaving door ajar since she is just going back out and RG sneaks in to rob the place hiding in Filomena's bathroom ( right close to the entrance) or room until AK leaves. After she leaves RG ransacks Filomena's room and then hears MK come in. Or even they complete the deal at the house instead of the bb court and both leave. (a reason for AK to stay quiet). RG hangs around and sees MK (an extremely attractive woman) arriving at the house and forces himself upon her and into the house. Take your pick. The rest is tragic history.
    3) A drop of AK's blood is found on the bathroom sink that AK and MK share. So what? That is circumstantial only. The blood could have been left there earlier in the day, even when RS, AK and MK were all still at the house. She could have had a bloody nose and just not wiped it up. It was her shared bathroom.
    4) AK's room was clean of all finger prints and traces of DNA. Appears even to have been cleaned with bleach. Attorney: Yes she cleaned it earlier that day. She hadn't been using it except to come and go since she was sleeping and staying at RK's every day/night for the past two weeks. But she decided to make it presentable for everyone anyway, having time to give it attention that holiday after hard partying the Halloween eve before.
    4a) Again totally circumstantial and not hard proof of her presence at the time of the murder.
    4b) I cannot buy into the idea that there was any cleanup by AK, AK & RS or anyone. If AK & RS were cleaning up why did they leave specs of blood in the bathroom sink (not the feces bathroom) and the blood diluted by water on the floor or rug. Rather stupid for people smart enough to manipulate a crime scene of their own presence, etc. More likely a panicked and careless killer was cleaning himself up before getting out of there. And who says AK washed MK's clothes. Maybe MK washed her own and just left them in the washer. See previous posts on this conjecture. We do have enough info on this item of the washing machine.
    5) Her behavior as described by the press, quoting friends and acquaintances at the police station isn't even evidence let alone circumstantial evidence. It wouldn't stand a chance in court. All it is is inappropriate (if some wish to call it guilty type behavior, so be it) behavior for someone who was a roommate and supposed friend of the victim to most of us. If the court allowed such testimony as these descriptions of her behavior, an attorney would find counter testimony as to that her behavior was a result of her own shock and incomprehension as to what had happened to her roommate;
    Now I am sure you are going to go "that is nonsensical" and that is fine, you are as entitled to your opinion as I or any one else. I am just trying to point out a counter viewpoint that the evidence against her is weak from a legal and hard forensic standpoint, say as compared to the evidence against RG.
    6) Finally I will throw in the cell phones of RS and AK go off at the same time (I remember that time as 21:00, I wish someone would reverify it, but I think Xin's timeline is 20:45. Either way how do the LE know they were turned off. The phones very well may have been placed together say next to RS's computer while they were at RS's house and electronic interference kept them from either broadcasting a signal (ping) or receiving a call or text msg because they were out of range.
    6a) Even PL said you couldn't place a cell call from his bar because the interference was too great. You had to go outside to place it. Once I heard that from him I was even more assured of his innocence because it meant to me that one wouldn't have to stroll very far from his own Le Chic before the next close tower (one near AK & MK house would also pick up the signal. Multiple towers must pick up a cell's location, otherwise there would never be a smooth hand-off off a call without it being dropped (early days of cell technology).

    So obviously I am out of breath and this is very long, but it is my case for the defense of AK unless, and it is a very big UNLESS, the investigating prosecutor or judge publicly states more solid evidence against her and not just conjectured theories based on this circumstantial evidence. They may have more to tell us yet. I will wait for it.
    The same goes for RK who's only solid evidence is the shoe print. One piece of evidence does not not make a guilty verdict unless that evidence is a signed confession. I rest my case for leaning strongly in the Pinecone theory box as of now.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
    coyotewaits1) She made a statement to LE, obviously under great interrogation stress (in US it would be unacceptable in court) that she was there in person in the kitchen and heard screams, PL, etc. She later recanted this statement and claimed it was made under duress. Such statements are weak as evidence of guilt.

    True, but she has had plenty of R&R since.
    Yet, her memory still fails her. Both she and RS have exactly the same gaps in memory from that night. Yet, they remember alot of similar details.

    That to me is suspicious.

    This I feel ties in with the whole free press thing. I personally think it's a good thing that her failure to remember and her statement being almost an exact negative of RS statement is in the public domain.

    Perhaps a lot of things that have come out in the press, well perhaps it would not have been able to be used in court, just because of rules.

    Like I said, I don't think she can rely on that 'stressful' interview forever.
    Even if it's not used in a trial, she's still not been able to get her story straight.

    The free press thing can be really useful. I personally think some journo should investigate if AK really did organise an april fools assault on a fellow UW student. I think though, that if it does exist, even if charges were brought (which I doubt), it couldn't be used in a court of law. espcially since, it's one persons word against the other (I can't see the fellow pranksters of AK confirming anything). it's probably just rumour anyway.
    Like in England a jury couldn't hear of a suspects past convictions for rape, or pedophilia, or any accusations anyway. until after the trial.
    Alot of stuff about Huntley (Soham murders) and the guy in the Payne thing, came out in the press or in the public domain only AFTER their trial(s).
    ----------------------------

    and in the US, in some states at least, she'd face the Death Penalty or a heftier jail stretch...
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Loz True, but she has had plenty of R&R since.
    Yet, her memory still fails her. Both she and RS have exactly the same gaps in memory from that night. Yet, they remember alot of similar details.
    That to me is suspicious.

    Without a doubt that and many other of both AK and RS statements are suspicious. And I believe they are being held on those very suspicious statements in addition to the circimstantial evidence. Even in the USA a person can be tried and found guilty on circumstantial evidence only but it usually has to be the "beyond a reasonable doubt" type "c" evidence. I think so far there is plenty of reasonable doubt evidence against both AK and RS and not much beyond a reasonable doubt evidence.

    That said, I have to make a distinction again between Criminal Code Prosecution in the USA and what it may be in Italy and hope our Italian posters can continue to advise us. In the USA these people would probably be out on bail; RG probably would not be. Furthermore they wouldn't even face bail proceedings without being arrested first. So they can say anything they want at anytime before arrest and it could never be used against them (with some exceptions under probable cause such as wire tapping, an informant testimony, etc.) But once arrested they now have Miranda rights and anything they say can be used against them.

    In Italy. I have no idea. They can be detained while not yet arrested. Are prosecutors allowed to use their pre arrest diaries as evidence; use their interrogation statements as evidence; etc., when they are finally brought to trial after arrest? I have no idea? Wish I did. This will make a very big difference to whether they can be found guilty or not in a "fair" trial.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    she has had plenty of R&R since.
    Yet, her memory still fails her. Both she and RS have exactly the same gaps in memory from that night.

    See my posts below about heavy binge hashish use and alcohol use below.

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... and http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    no joking intended this time. I don't know. Everyone here seems to remember smoking weed and never having any short term memory loss. To the contrary my long ago experience I recall that short term memory loss was a classic symptom of hashish smoking.

    I do not wish to embarrass anyone here, but did anyone else have that experience. Maybe marijuana was different and had higher levels of THC in my day (Mexican & LA varieties). Besides hashish often was different then and came in cake form mixed with some opium. Is that still true today in Europe?
    Just asking? Everyone seems to find AK and RS memory loss convenient rather than possibly real. Again, if I was a defense attorney I would have lots of pharmacologists and psychologists expert witnesses on the stand if prosecutors chose to go down this avenue as evidence of wrong doing and covering up.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... coyotewaits "Everyone seems to find AK and RS memory loss convenient rather than possibly real."

    It would not be so suspicious if they didn't remember all the same tings and have identical gaps. sorry. it's 'too constructed'.
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  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "To the contrary my long ago experience I recall that short term memory loss was a classic symptom of hashish smoking."

    I smoked hash one time, a long time ago. I was in a country that seems to have legalized all drugs. I think I did it only because I wanted to know why it's not legal in most places.

    I knew right away it was not something I'd be doing again. I hated the feeling of not being able to focus and remember from one minute to the next what had happened or been said. Time crawled. Minutes seemed like hours. I thought that day would never end, and then I felt tired and dopey for days afterwards.

    I can believe Amanda's story.
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  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "The free press thing can be really useful."

    After reading some of the lies, distortions and inaccuracies about this case in the British press, I can understand why the courts there lock down press coverage of local criminal cases.
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  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    Nice post, CW. You covered several areas I've considered (e.g. cell phone signals), but was too lazy to put into words. Perhaps your comments will help others determine the value, or lack of, of various types of evidence.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    AndyT "Pinecone's "piece of glass" theory is so outrageously nonsensical that it sounds to me like something out of Alice in Wonderland or Harry Potter"

    100% agree with you there.
    If RHG used a piece of glass as a single perp, which I find illogical, then he'd have more hand injuries from handling that glass shard than just one slash.

    Unfortunately for pinecone, the fact that RHG has only one slash on his hand is the one key thing that does indeed support the fact that it was a defensive wound.
    Admittedly, he could have done it himself with a knife or on glass. BUT the fact is his hands would have more than just one gash if he used a shard of glass (IMHO) he would have been cut while plunging it, and cut again when removing it from the neck. His fingers would have cuts on them from gripping it too. Infact, if a shard of glass was the murder weapon, his hand would be cut to ribbons. IMHO anyway.

    It doesn't mean he didn't have a knife, it's just VERY strange that he should have accidentally 'slashed' his hand with it, yet not his fingers. I mean, even if he picked up a knife in the wrong way, why are his fingers not slashed?
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  • tomcat

    1 year ago

    Just pure speculation, but if it is a defensive wound on RHG's palm then it could be there for the reason he has publicly stated. If it happens to be a false statement, however, could it be that Meredith, in fighting for her life, at some point managed to snatch either the small blade or larger weapon to defend herself with during the struggle? Could this be how RHG received the wound to his palm?

    If Meredith grabbed the small blade, could this be what necessitated the use of a larger weapon by her oppressor/s?
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t... tomcat "could it be that Meredith, in fighting for her life".

    Yes, definitely, but what it can't be is a shard of glass as the murder weapon IMHO :)
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  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Pinecone wrote: I believe RS's attorneys have documentation that will prove the police are mistaken about the times of the phone calls.

    In US, even in the smallest police departments, there is a 10 code (which I forget though I did work as an RO at a police department) which says to the dispatcher that "I have arrived on scene in answer to a complaint". Do not know if they where doing that in Perugia or if they estimated their arrival time after they realized there was a crime...since they were returning the cell phones (essentially a lost and found and a possible harrassment call) it may be the time they met the lady with the cell phones for all we know.

    10-23

    I looked it up..
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  • meman

    1 year ago

    (off topic)...Kinda like this site now...thanks Steve....also I believe this site is perfect for coyotewaits...now instead of him dishing out medals........he can give points
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  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    Very well, Chris. It makes sense to me to create new posts. I hope the commenters who were skeptical about Rudy's DNA on the vaginal swab have seen the news about the DNA on the bra. The more evidence that points to him, the less likely it is for anyone else to have been involved.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    from the floorplan provided through these comments pages, it doesn't even appear that MK had a wardrobe. Nor AK. Infact, Guede said Krcher kept her underwear in her bed-side table. I could be wrong, but it appears the ownder didn't provide the renters with a wardrobe.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Loz: from the floorplan provided through these comments pages, it doesn't even appear that MK had a wardrobe.

    Yes, there was definitely a two door wardrobe in the picture, like an armourie (sp). That is clear from room photographs
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    ah yes i am blind! no good w/ pictures, see what i wanna see? ski masks lol
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    " I did recall that they matched his fingerprint to his visa application which was on file. "

    which means he wasn't even printed from his last arrest?
    I think there is mis-information out there. Maybe they just knew who he was from AKs phone(s), and once caught in Germany, it took so long to extradite him, because they were running the forensics.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    I think what happened to ID RG initially was by running the information on cell phone numbers in AK's phone. They then knew several people who they contacted for statements. Same with RS's and PL's phones. However, when they found prints at the crime scene that didn't match any of the three arrested, nor any of the other 7 house mates, they probably started an electronic match of prints against a known database of which RG would have been included given his previous arrests. That is when they announced they were looking for a fourth suspect, knew who he was but would not state his name for fear of his fleeing Perugia. However, they did start interviewing people around the city showing his picture. At that time they didn't know he had already fled. Later they would find his whereabouts through his internet messaging to a friend (now never mentioned).
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Cayote - Makes sense! thankyou :)
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  • chrischris

    1 year ago

    loz--- am i doing something wrong with this new thread? I posted some interesting news about rudy dna found on MK bra--and no one has commented. I have my system set on "flat" not "thread" so that means comments that are posted as new comments, not as replys, are up top, and then I have to scroll down to here , where I am now to look for recent comments that were made under "reply"
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  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    Sorry, Chris. I intended to comment immediately about your news...Rudy's DNA was found on Meredith's bra..but, I got distracted in trying to figure out where I wanted to put my comment. Anyhow, thanks for that update. It seemed that the judges decided Meredith didn't know Rudy before November 1. I want to see how he explains this, or who he blames for planting the evidence.
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  • chrischris

    1 year ago

    pinecone-- The only way I realized you responded to me was Loz's suggestion that I gointo my profile by clicking my name and seeing replys---did not see this until I clicked view all replies , the third button. please if you can, respond to my comments by creating a new post, I would really appreciated that a lot. Or else I know I will miss your brilliance ;-)

    Wierd pinecone--I just saw your post now in the "flat" format which you made 22 minutes ago. I did not see that before.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    "being on her knees in front of the wardrobe" - because of where most of the blood was? because maybe it wasn't on the back of her head, or all up the side of her head?

    Maybe that's why they expected it on her legs? It didn't run down the loose jeans cos she was bent over.

    She had her 'loose' pants on fully or partially because her jeans soaked the blood off the floor?

    the floor was tiled?
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Meredith Kercher, Rest In Peace........you will be remembered, we here will remain to be witnesses that the truth be known and justice served
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  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    Select "Flat" under "View Posts" at top right, and you can use this just like the old thread. It gets rid of the hierarchy.

    The arrows let you "rate" the post (as you will see from the tool-tip if you hover over them). These ratings only matter if you choose to sort by "Hot" or "Best".
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    did I figure this out yet?
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  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    I think you did :)
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  • voicelessvictims

    1 year ago

    I thought you were supposed to be resting, Steve!

    I can't make sense of all the different folks that are alleged to have been at the crime scene. Who was actually there, and who killed Meredith? It seems so confusing. I am sure it will be harder to sort out with people that keep changing their stories. I feel horrible for Meredith's family.
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  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    I have been resting, and still am. This was some of the easiest blog upgrading/changing/whatever I've had to do.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Loz —Today 03:21 PM
    "yes, I think she'll get away with her crime. RHG, what is he getting out of protecting her though? He could well land her in it. He's already admitted to being there.
    ah, maybe she is innocent after all."

    This always bothered me also Loz. Given in the back of my mind I have never been able to quite shake off as you say, that someway, somehow AK and RS were involved.
    But as you say, with all the evidence they have on RG (and his lawyers have to know it and perhaps more) why is he not naming AK and/or AK & RS. It's baffling. The only thing I have been able to shake loose from my feeble neurons is that he isn't naming them because 1) they really weren't there "when he was" or 2) if he outs them, he knows they will just out him back and say together (2 against 1) yes, RG killed MK while we were smokin' and lovin' in another room.
    If number 2) is close to the truth it explains why the three of them maintain a conspiracy to not tattle on one-another. They have everything to lose and certainly nothing to gain.
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  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Xin wrote:" kermit might BE perugia LE"

    Ha! I always wanted to be like Steve McGarrett. When he spins around on the highrise balcony in the title sequence of Hawaii 5-0, just after the hula dancers hips just about knock you out of your arm chair.

    No, I'm just your average frog.
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  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Can't be a cop...too funny.
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    As Nero Wolfe was just your average orchid grower. I wouldn't have known where to begin.
    reply
  • belle

    1 year ago

    High-larious... someone docked me a point on my 'confession' post! Who says they don't miss elementary school? It's ok, no more 'narkiness' here. I got nuthin' but love for y'all, even the haters. As Xin would say, "have at it."
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    "During the questioning by the Police has had other difficult moments. For example - still according to what we have been able to apprehend - when some details about Meredith's death have been contested to her, details regarding the position of the corpse and the murder bedroom, to which she had referred in the Questura (Police headquarters) on the 2nd of November, talking with some victim's friends. These are details she couldn't know, unless she had been in the house in Via della Pergola that night."

    gee then seattleite had it right. The LE is referring to hearsay testimony from friends. Oh gawd, I've got to go wash my car in the winter snow. bye!
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  • belle

    1 year ago

    kay, read almost everything... wow! I want to read this new journal from AK... I'm guessing that since her italian is probably no better than mine, it should make for a simple translation. Shall I post it here, or is it already old news?

    another thought concerning AK and RS guilt/cleanup or no... it seems suspicious to me that RS would have paid such attention to the mop, noticing Meredith's jeans etc. in his journal if he were oh-so-innocent. People keep saying that lies are told with truth interjected. If he had nothing whatsoever to do with this, then why would these details have made it into his account while he makes such a big deal about not being able to remember anything else?
    AK as well, with her "I have no idea what I did that night, but ONE thing I'm sure of is that RS had blood on his hand at 11:30pm" Why was this detail included in her otherwise foggy account?

    One more thing, apparently no one wants to admit to smoking marijuana or hashish apart from "that one time... soooo many years ago" so I'll go ahead with it. OK, I DO! I started back in high school (the schwag from "The Avenue" before upgrading to "the kind") Here in Italy you don't find the NoCal green bud, but hash is abundantly available from pretty much any park, grocery store (outside, not at the cashier ((unless they're a friend?))) bar or restaurant.

    sidebar- When I first arrived in Italy in 09/06 I was traveling alone on a months holiday, my friend couldn't save the money so I flew solo, and I made a casual reference to my waiter at the bar where I was having dinner the first evening after arriving. We'd been flirting, I'd had a few glasses of wine... a few hours later after he'd closed shop we were sharing a joint, (hash with tobacco) 15 months later, we're living together planning our wedding. We smoke a joint together in the evenings, no biggie. Certainly, it's not something we will continue to do when we begin to plan our future family.
    That said, my memory is EXCELLENT. I remember what I eat, conversations, can recite commercials after 2or 3 viewings not to mention entire scripts for movies and plays. Ok, don't ask me where my keys/sunglasses are... but that's it. I am pretty sure AK was a veteran potheaed, finding the migration from West Coast green to hash hardly phasing, and I seriously doubt she had a pinecone experience on Nov 1.

    The last thing I want to say is about this new page. I really liked how with haloscan, when people posted links they would open up in new tab. <was this the case for everyone, or something to do with my computer? Please come back squiggle :( Here, if I try to open a link it redirects the page and I have to scroll around looking for my place upon return. I prefer the old way. That said, I love my little 'faith' pic ;)
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  • chrischris

    1 year ago

    I view this blog in Flat mode, and scroll down to the bottom to see Reply mode, I am sure I am missing stuff though.

    So, the shoe print doesn't fit most likely. Not surprised.

    hearsay about Amanda talking about the crime scene. Hmmm doubt that.

    Love your story Belle, it is beautiful, congratulations!
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    I have a prescription, hundreds of *dispensaries* in california. it's like shopping in the produce dept--brands, sales, specials, ratings.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    one toke over the line, fer shure then!
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  • xin

    1 year ago

    yup and i confessed it to my adult son (with another sleezier tech confession) since we LIVE IN A PANOPTICON (as foucault) and we have NO PRIVACY which is how i defend guilty until proven innocent. bought gas? have you flown? do you have a cell phone? that's why no matter how curmudginly or peevish CW gets, I try to be nice since i appreciate knowing to take out the battery and put it by the tv if i am up to no good. scott peterson taught us that if you call the cell Operator, and then they connect you to the number, they can't find who you called. It's all just O.

    I hope you find this and that i am not messing everything up and that i am not construed as a big fan of disCUSS. (hi daniel)

    now, raise your hand if you've had your bank accts closed by HomeSic on accout of no record (they could find, haha) of an earth addy for me.
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Well, I haven't tried yet, xin to find your land-addy, and as I use only the open stuff through google, I'm not always successful. To really work at it, I'd have to
    belong to the pay-us-DB sites. But with THAT hint, I just might be able. Don't forget, we all leave asides about ourselves, scattered throughout these Steve-site posts.
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  • Rhonda

    1 year ago

    I so agree belle, like I said before" you may forget where you put your keys but you sure as hell won't forget where you were or who you slept with." There is a vote pool on Perugia Shock site about memory loss and smoking hash and pot >95% no memory loss 5% say memory loss. And yes I am experienced...not just in my past.
    Love your Italian love story...have to admit I was curious how you ended up in Milan.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    "The moments of difficulty. Nel corso dell'interrogatorio, però, la ragazza ha avuto anche altri momenti di difficoltà. In Corsican of questioning, however, she also had other moments of difficulty. Ad esempio - sempre secondo quanto si è potuto apprendere - quando le sono stati contestati alcuni particolari relativi alla morte di Meredith, alla posizione del corpo e alla stanza del delitto, cui lei avrebbe fatto cenno in questura lo scorso 2 novembre (quattro giorni prima del fermo) parlando con alcune amiche della vittima. For example - according to what we have been able to learn - when you were challenged some details of the death of Meredith, the position of the body and the room of the crime, which you would have mentioned in the police last November 2 (four days before firm) talking with some friends of the victim. Particolari che non avrebbe potuto conoscere se non fosse stata presente, quella notte, in via della Pergola. Details that it could not know if it had not been present that night, in Via della Pergola. "

    This doesn't make sense at all. AK saw the body was present when the police broke down the door, so she would have details about the body to discuss with friends or MK. This reportage by Italian press is abominable. If it was good journalism they would be reporting the actual details, questions and her answers of the interrogation on 02 Nov. But they don't. Yet the questions and answers must have been iterated to AK at this hearing as they pressed her for answers to their implied inconsistencies. This is just coercive interrogation, these hearings, obviously still trying to coerce a confession of some sorts from each suspect. I wouldn't answer a damn question either. Under the Italian system a suspect has no rights, obviously, when they can be jailed without arrest.

    I hope both RS and AK and RS just stick to their guns and remain silent. Not because I think they are innocent or guilty, but because they need to force the authorities to take them to arrest and trial. Yeh, I think I know why Italy has their detain before arrest system. It is a holdover from Vatican medieval days of forcing confessions from anyone because they couldn't really solve the crime anyway. I now completely reaffirm my position with Pinecone's theory that AK and RS are innocent of the murder, possibly bought drugs from RG just prior to the murder, because (my position) the LE just does not have the hard forensic evidence to place them at the crime scene like thay do Rudy. They are fishing for a confession and an entrapment by statement because of this. And we probably will not see a trial until a year from this past November 1 because LE is hoping a year in prison as a non-indicted suspect will break them. As I noted, using the archaic methods of Vatican police tactics.
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Amanda saw into the room on November 2 for a very brief time--RS talked about pulling her out almost immediately. All she should have been able to see is a foot sticking out from under the duvet. Perhaps she gave details about the placement of the arms or other leg, etc.
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  • DLW

    1 year ago

    Just information. Tonight on the Fox news channel, Geraldo Rivera had about a 15 min segment on the Meredith Kercher case. Nothing new here, but one of the working theories is that Meredith may have actually walked in on Amanda & Rudy while they were in the process of stealing money from her room?? They also had a prosecuting attorney and a defense attorney debating what role(s) Amanda may have had.
    It’s on again tonight at 11:00 PM New York time. If you have a tivo and /or access to Fox News (channel 205 on Dish Network), it comes on about 5 min. into the segment.
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  • meman

    1 year ago

    I know I am not a murderer or a thief, so I may have a hard time thinking like one.....But for me to believe that theorie its just to hard to swallow.......The other roommates were gone,so the only other person left would be Amanda.......and wouldn't she know where Meredith would be pointing the accusing finger at......Her....Amanda could not be that dumb......The only way I see that senerio happening is if they broke the window first.........then escaping before Merediths arrival................................But thats not possible because it was reported that the window was broken from the inside......not outside.................................Thanks.....Will check it out on Fox
    reply
  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Hey, AK could always say that she wasn't there in the house--that she was with RS all night at his flat. If MK didn't believe that, she could always say that she was too high to remember....Her memory is all foggy (sorry, couldn't resist).
    reply
  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    This is where the line from MK about AK being a "drugged up tart" woiuld come in. Mk, if she walked in on this would be furious! I am sure that she would have hit her limit on tolerating anything more from AK and would've threatened to throw her out and perhaps to call police.

    We know that AK was capable of flying into rages herself and I think Mk's fury would ignite a similar fury in AK.

    I dont believe that AK and Rudy on their own would commit murder--but i still believe someone else, perhaps Rudy's suppliere showed up, and I believe he was more ruthless. All theoretical opinion, mind you...
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "I dont believe that AK and Rudy on their own would commit murder--but i still believe someone else, perhaps Rudy's suppliere showed up, and I believe he was more ruthless. All theoretical opinion, mind you... "

    Bear in mind that Rudy tore Meredith's bra off after she'd been stabbed. Do you think the ruthless supplier killed her so Rudy could have his way with her? The "real killer' had just stabbed Rudy in the palm, yet Rudy took time to strip and sexually assault a dying woman?
    reply
  • BeenHereAllAlong

    1 year ago

    Rudy's supplier is no more going to show up on a delivery than a Domino's district manager is going to deliver your pizza.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    reply
  • crobinator

    1 year ago

    what's this thing about a text being sent reading "Meredith dies"??

    Did I miss the discussion of it in the posts? There are a lot of pages :(
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    either do I
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Pinecone et al...

    also, if you would be so kind, who were the two people seen running in opposite directions at 10:30 pm.

    And, if I am right, there was something heard at 2am. Who was heard at 2am?

    --Il Messaggero reported yesterday that an unnamed woman professor had told police that she heard a “terrifying scream” as she passed the cottage at 2am. This would appear to be at odds with the official time of death, which pathologists originally put at between midnight and 2am but then moved back to between 10pm and midnight.

    The paper said that a female student who lives near the murder scene had testified that she heard “strange noises” from the cottage garden at 1am, while another had said that a “coloured man” rushed past her from the direction of the cottage at 10.30pm.--

    but for that mushroom.
    reply
  • fran

    1 year ago

    Someone here is insisting there was a murder and he is the black one... actually something more happened that night that has involved others, some of them probably as witnesses.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    i agree fran. i think it's strange :)
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Annarbor:

    Sorry if that came across as testy. I was writing in Dragnet mode.

    Imagine a little smiley face. I do not know how to make those..
    reply
  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Thw smiley face is noted, seattleite, thanks.

    You know that my theory is different than that of yours and Pinecone's. But I am not certain about anything in this case. You and Pinecone, even cw, seem so sure--I just want to hear your take on some of these issues.
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    The whole phone thing may be a key to the crime and will explain what's up with PL.
    Everybody (!) turning off their phones in synch is one of the big, big mysteries, along with the role of the giallo couple.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    phones instead of car keys? eewww. RHGs phone was on though?
    reply
  • BeenHereAllAlong

    1 year ago

    A point for Daniel for coming here, and a point to Xin for getting him. Thanks to both!

    I'd love to know about fingerprints on those tossed cell phones.
    reply
  • muddy

    1 year ago

    re shard of glass: the ILE have consistently mentioned right from the beginning 'knife or piece of glass'

    I always thought it was slightly odd to mention glass: there must be a reason?
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    broken window?

    I've heard the weapon had a serated edge, I've also heard it was a 'punture' wound. Heard loads. Have to wait and see.

    But, why isn't RHGs hand cut to ribbons?
    reply
  • muddy

    1 year ago

    Loz, the broken window wasn't in MK's room (you didn't say it was - just for clarification).

    So break a window from the inside then use a shard of glass as a weapon?........

    I can see your point about RHG's hand. It all seems unlikely, but glass was mentioned right from the off.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    OK we'll have to disagree. I just think him breaking in downstairs & carrying a shard of glass around from that break-in is unusual. If he was anticipating someone, then as in the past, he'd have a knife on him.
    Maybe there is glass in the wound.
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    "But, why isn't RHGs hand cut to ribbons?"

    Maybe for the same reason the victim's throat was not slashed.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Pinecone "But, why isn't RHGs hand cut to ribbons?"

    Maybe for the same reason the victim's throat was not slashed.

    ==You've lost me pinecone. If he was handling a shard of glass, he'd have more than one gash right?
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    He would not have said the window was unbroken when he fled unless he was trying to wiggle out of something bad involving the broken window. Maybe the edges of the glass were not sharp, or maybe that's where the bloody towel fits in. Perhaps he used a towel to wrap the edges, but the final forceful thrust sent the butt end of the glass through the towel and into his palm.
    I guess we'll find out some day.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
    well, the most likley explanation apart from if he was let into the house, is that if he is solely guilty, then he broke the window to get in.

    However, unless he stalks & knows all the people in that house, maybe the lights were off?

    It's just incredibly "brave" of him to break into a house that could have had a lot of people in it, and to do so early at night, rather than say 3am when it's more likely people would be asleep.

    but not impossible.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Loz, for what it is worth, though I presently support Pinecone's theory that RG killed MK, I support that he had a knife with which he did it. The glass is a bit of a stretch for me also, given the comments in the press reports about her wounds, but anything remains possible at this point. I cannot image that RG didn't carry a knife constantly much as RS also did. Anyone who lives his life mostly on the streets, clubbing, playing bb, delivering pizza (I read where he did that occasionally) etc. (even though he did have a flat), I can't imagine not carrying some kind of legal weapon.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    agreed. I can well imagine RHG stabbed MK with a knife, rather than a shard of glass.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    anyway, we know AK should have prints in her room because we know her bedroom was her boudoir. we know she did some living at the house, because she didn't flush & clean.

    we know this from statements from F&F.
    reply
  • erhw

    1 year ago

    ok think i accidentally got there somehow- but had to log in (and therefore give my email etc. details) twice on what seemed to be two different pages? and now finally seem logged in. Not happy about that. Not sure I'd know how to repeat it either
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    change is good.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    THIS change has been NOTHING but a pain in the ass.
    reply
  • Daniel Ha

    1 year ago

    Hi Robert,

    Which parts are a pain? I'd be happy to help in any way I can.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    This is coyotewaits, danielha. Thanks for popping in. A couple points:
    1) When you hover over the icon and select permalink to post in your post or reply, it includes the view configuration of the of the poster of the link (you are currently set to oldest & flat). After you post that link, the reader launching it has there browser reset to that configuration. No problem if you launch in a new tab but then if you forget to go back to your original tab or fail to back one page in your browser you are no longer in your own configuration.
    2) see next post.
    reply
  • Daniel Ha

    1 year ago

    Hi coyotewaits,

    I wrote a little about forum view vs. blog view here. The difference is that the view setting sticks in the blog view at the moment. It's up to the site-owner to set the flat/threaded setting, but we'll have this a user preference very soon.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    No daniel. I have been in forum view //truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/ from the very start. We are aware of that problem with using the embedded blog view (version).

    Also Steve here allows either the threaded or flat view so that is not an issue. My other points, please? Points, there is that word again. My other issues? Please comment, thanks.
    reply
  • Daniel Ha

    1 year ago

    Sorry, I made a mistake in linking in my previous post. It's fixed now. I meant the blog view is the True Crime Talk blog.

    I understand your other point. We'll take a closer look at this. Thanks for bringing it up.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Thanks for the reply on this issue.
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    edit: below

    about 2 minutes ago
    we need a date/time stamp
    reply
  • Daniel Ha

    1 year ago

    Hi xin,

    I wrote about date/time stamps here.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Only when you are trying to find a previous post you wish to link too. I feel your pain then, though it is in my elbow and fingers from scrolling and scrolling and scrolling more, up and down, down more, back up *crying*
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    TIME STAMP DECISION

    As discussed below by Squiggle and coyotewaits, it will be most useful to all of us IF we use a Hard Time Stamp, rather than the Relative one. I think we are agreed on that and now many of us can tell others how to access that function.

    However, just WHICH Time Zone? We could go:
    (I) Perugia time
    (II) Greenwich MT, which might also be Perugia time
    (III) Eastern US standard Time which is STEVE-TIME as he's in Atlanta
    (IV) Central US ST (pinecone & coyotewaits I think)
    (V) Pacific Time (xin)

    I'd vote for either PERUGIA-TIME or STEVE-TIME, and Steve-Time over P-Time as its my time.

    So whomever reads this post, please use the reply function to VOTE during the day & direct others here to vote also. Let's see what total we've got late today or tomorrow
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    That should be "whoever". It's the subject of the sentence. There is far too much grandstanding here - people using big words in an attempt to sound impressive. I nearly commented earlier, and will do now, on a reference to the "Italian Jurisprudence System". Pretentious nonsense! "Jurisprudence" is the theory and philosophy of law. What was meant is the "Italian Legal System". A "Jurisprudence System", should it exist, would be run by universities.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    http://www.answers.com/topic/who

    "The grammatical rules governing the use of who and whom in formal writing apply equally to whoever and whomever and are similarly often ignored in speech and informal writing.

    As I will put up with jargon growing out of professional usage, such as in software engineering, I will also put up with the variety of ways people use words here. If usage obfuscates meaning, I'll ask for clarification. And I am always prepared to be corrected as then I learn something directly.. Thanks for the note on the correct usage of "jurisprudence".
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    Sorry for the tone. It's late here in Oz, and the red wine is kicking in.
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    NO! I never suggested or agreed with this. It is entirely unnecessary!

    You don't need to quote a timestamp when responding to a link. Use the 'reply' link below the article you are replying to. If you want to create a permanent link to the post you are referring to, follow my instructions at http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    It would be madness to try to get everyone to change their profiles to a foreign time zone. For a start, any new arrivals would be completely lost. Use links. That's what the whole brilliance of the hypertext idea was about. Use the 'reply' link - that automatically creates very important links for you.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    I vote "no" with Squiggle on the time stamp issue. At first I suggested the very same thing. See my post @ http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    But Squiggle clarified the no need by pointing out the little menu beneath our icons. "just hover" lol.
    reply
  • mare

    1 year ago

    I vote Eastern standard time
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    This poll was canceled almost as soon as it was started. See http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Mr. Bogart was focused on the missing strawberries aboard the USS Caine, whereas both Charles Laughton and Trevor Howard, and later Anthony Hopkins, assayed the role of the bread-fruit-tree hugger William Bligh. But who played their Mr. Christians?

    If you can't get the dashboard timestamp to function, Pinecone, then it must be a Master Setting Steve has to turn on. In fact, working with this laptop, I don't even have a "dashbaord", and all the stuff that was over on the right is now all at the bottom of the posts--except for the dashboard which isn't anywheres.

    STEVE!! Turn on the time stamp function. Please. Thank you.
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    gable, brando, gibson

    Thanks Fran for translation.-Skype call. This is evidence and the transcript is a document

    My question is who is the leaker of this (which if not a "recreation") certainly sounds like a real call.

    Who would have a copy.

    The "friend" may have a copy if his computer was used as the client for the skype call. This is his lotto ticket to this case which others have already cashed: The Albanian--if he really exists--with his steamy sex fling with Amanda; the shopkeeper with the lingerie comment and video (cha-ching); PL reported as 70,000 euros for his "why Amanda hates me interview".

    The police: But I can't see how this would help them.

    The defense: They may certainly have been given a copy according to my reading of the (CCP )Italian Code Criminal Procedure and this could help them. But wouldn't they be held in the Italian version of contempt of court if they leaked this?

    But since everything which has appeared in the papers which might be evidence in the case possible future testimony of suspects etc.-- and which didn't come from the judge or prosecutors-- has had a price tag on it...I am going to say "the friend".
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    OK, legal-eagle-briefs-not-boxers. Who was Bogart's "Christian" in the movie? Bonus points: who threw the potted tree over board from the US tincan at the end of yet another? And why was the submarine pink?
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    RobertM: Lemmon...throws the potted plant overboard /and I want a bonus point for identifying Pesci in Goodfellows for the canoli line.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    I'll give you 2 points for the first response but only 1 for the second & not because you went with Hank over Van, but the line is from The Godfather Part 1 and its Clemenza who delivers it after the new guy makes his bones by killing the driver of the car. The canoli is on the front seat. (Unless of course they got Pesci to re-do it for self-referential fun in Goodfellas; that I don't remember.)
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Robert M: Misread your quiz. Van Johnson. No red or white paint available for underbelly of the sub so they used pink...true story.
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    RobertM: You got it my friend. Hence my fetish for DOCUMENTS.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    But you've got to get with THIS format, documentarily-wise. You were supposed to post "You got it" as a "reply" to my reply, and so this would be my reply to your reply to my reply & so. Intellectual nesting that makes a hash of discussion.

    You are aware? that we now have a "seattle mom" as well as a "seattleite".
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    If you must. I like it fully chron cause I am usually doing a project when I am reading and writing on the blog. I wouldn't mind keeping it as a thread but I doubt most will do that so following along chron seems find.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    OK. I want to be clear about this, chrischris. We swabbies are staging a take-over of the Good Ship True Crime over the objections of Captain Steve Bligh-Huff who LIKES the Post & Reply thread format? That is, we will sailing the ship along the Straight Lines of Post to Reply, Not Reply to Reply?

    I have no problem with that, as I don't want to make a large post in a reply (though I see that I just have). But we are going to have to let each new poster know this as Steve's head-notes are rather biased in favor of the reply format.

    So, is this waht we are saying?
    reply
  • fran

    1 year ago

    I can say that Guede is saying he met meredith in an Irish pub and then at the Haloween Party
    He says he had some sexual contact with meredith, they had oral sex, but not a complete sexual relationship because they didn't have a condom
    He says that when the bell rang he was in the bathroom and thought they were the guys living in the other apartment; the murderer had light brown hair (so at the time he thought about M's boyfriend)
    He says the spainsh guys house at the Haloween party can confirm he was there
    He says that when meredith found out about the missing money she said she had had an argument with Amanda the day before
    reply
  • DLW

    1 year ago

    Rudy’s psychiatrist : Rudy is ’a fragile youth, not aggressive and above all non violent‘. Me: I wonder if he means by that he’s easily manipulated. In addition he says that Rudy regards women as ‘sweet, affectionate mother figures‘. Me: Some possible variation of Norman Bates of Psycho complex.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    chrischris,
    I have been flitting between the flat & threaded format. I always have posts sorted by newest.
    I find the easiest way to look and see replies to my post is to look at my own profile (click on your name). It has all your posts there, and the replies to it. Just click 'replies'.
    I think a good tip is to upload a distinctintive/personal pic from your PC into your profile, as a way of zoning in on your posts on this page.
    Hope this helps,:)
    ps: with the edit button I have no excuse for typos, spelling mistakes, or making too many posts!
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Coyotewaits, the "everybody's afraid of" killer would be one who's connected. I have a hard time believing RS and AK are afraid enough of Rudy to keep silent. And I am now believing less the idea that AK is the one who holds power over everyone (but RS in a way), and that they are all so in cahoots. But there are such criminals in Italy that can't be prosecuted, I believe. Please any Italians chime in if I'm wrong. They can get away with a lot because they're connected. That's why people have to be afraid. Their power, or that of their friends reaches far and wide. It is best to have nothing to do with them if you can. It's easier for me to believe that all three are terrified of becoming more involved, by naming such a person.

    Anyway, in the other thread I think it was Fran, said there may be a CCTV image of one of the people who fled the cottage, and RG's lawyers say it's not him. If this is true, it can open things up.

    Buona notte.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Where is the evidence that MK was dressed when she was killed? Wasn't it merely supposition and speculation along with the so called "being on her knees in front of the wardrobe" by the ILE or the media reporting ILE leaks over 30 days ago and not since reconfirmed? I submit there is no hard evidence at all about this assumption. In fact, there is hard evidence to the contrary. That a vaginal swab found RG's DNA inside MK vagina or on the labia surface. That DNA could come from either semen or epithelium cells from friction of skin on genital tissue. You can't get your DNA on a victims genitals with their clothes on. Assume for now in our analysis that her clothes were off not on. We can hardly take very much of the reported evidence as fact and especially an assumption about exactly where and how she was positioned upon the fatal blow. It just never made sense at all to me that a so called sexual attack was staged after her death.

    Either her clothes were on and the vaginal swab DNA is false or her clothes were off and the DNA is real. Either scenario makes more sense to me than someone stripping the body of clothes and faking a sex act by placing DNA? on her genitals all the while blood is all over the floor.

    Lastly, if one was stabbed in the neck while on their knees and pulled back and upright wouldn't it be most likely that blood would flow (gush) downwards on to the shoulder, chest, back, hip and thighs/buttocks and onto either jeans? or bare legs? Why was there no mention of blood being found on her jeans or legs? However, if she was lying prone on her back on the floor, with her head compressed down on a pillow and twisted forcefully to the side to expose her neck to a threatening knife and then struck....blood would pool around her neck, shoulder, head and the pillow and floor, not coming even close to her legs. But as always, your opinion is as good as mine.
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  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    "But as always, your opinion is as good as mine."

    Yes, and that's just a scenario I can believe based on Rudy's story. The main problem with it for me is, where is Amanda? The judges propose that Rudy was really there to meet Amanda to collect money she owed him. See story here:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/eur...

    I can believe this too, if I shift some opinions, and it's closer to what I used to believe. But I guess I am having a hard time seeing Rudy as that kind of a devil, one who would kill, and one Amanda and Raf would be afraid of. They all seem in way over their heads. This thing is bigger than anything they could do on their own. That's just my feeling. It could change.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    sparrow: "The judges propose that Rudy was really there to meet Amanda to collect money she owed him"

    That is also the theory I now assume. AK was there to meet RG. But whether at the bb court or house. But I think prosecutors are theorizing about the stolen money, etc. It just gets very vague now. Did AK help Rudy to assault MK, did MK return to find AK paying RG off with her stolen money, etc., etc. Does go too far for my speculating brain now, until I hear more. Hopefully from RG's lips. I do think RG is the killer. If not why not name the killer. If the evidence against him so far is actual and fact, then he is all but convicted. He has no out. It baffles me the approach he and his lawyers are taking. But that may be the way to handle it with the Italian jurisprudence system, which I have no real understanding of.

    What I discount almost entirely is that there is some other mysterious "everbodies afraid of" killer. And if and how, is RS involved? Waiting, that's all. I am just waiting.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    just testing, like it so far from a reading standpoint
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Where is the evidence that MK was dressed when she was killed. It was supposition and speculation by the ILE or the media reading the ILE along with so called being on her knees in front of the wardrobe. I say there is no hard evidence at all about this assumption. In fact, there is hard evidence to the contrary. That a vaginal swab found RG's DNA inside MK vagina or on the labia surface. That DNA could come from either semen or skin cells from friction. You can't get your DNA on a victims genitals with their clothes on.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    you can if he stuck his hand down? Maybe the jeans were loose? but then, no blood at all? past the 'loose' waist of the jeans? Jeans though, can be a 'dense' material. and soak up blood, fast enough? bah, not a clue
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    "You can't get your DNA on a victims genitals with their clothes on. "

    Yeah, that's why I don't trust this DNA evidence. Ånd yes, that she was dressed was speculation based on what they saw at the crime scene. I'm choosing to believe this at this time.

    And I know where DNA could come from during sex. What I was asking in that other post was do we know where that particular DNA actually comes from. I don't think we know. But it could be important. And the other possibility is contamination in the lab. DNA evidence is proof of the presence of cells from a person. It doesn't always tell us how it got on that particular swab. We have to trust. In this case I don't trust. If later it is reported that her legs were covered in blood, meaning she was unclothed when killed, I will change my mind.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    How would there be contamination? when they did th autopsy, they did not have guedes DNA, as they did not have Guede. I know he had a prior conviction, and that's where they got hiis fingerprint from, don't know if they had his DNA.
    They had PL locked up at the time, maybe while they sorted the DNA out.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    That is a good point Loz, I also wondered where they came up with his original DNA as they stated the match before he was apprehended. However, if as now in the USA where any person convicted of a crime and jailed, whether felony or misdemeanor they are forced to give a DNA sample, meaning have a medical exam. So if RG had already been in jail for some offense they had his DNA. I did recall that they matched his fingerprint to his visa application which was on file.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    sparrow: And the other possibility is contamination in the lab. DNA evidence is proof of the presence of cells from a person. It doesn't always tell us how it got on that particular swab. We have to trust. In this case I don't trust.

    Contamination is certainly a possibility with DNA comparative analysis, would depend on the lab and technicians experience.
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    ansdm, you are almost certainly not at the right page. If you can't see "View Posts", you must be using the embedded version. Go to http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    ansdm:

    Go Here:

    http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    set this as your bookmark...click NEWEST under Sort Posts By...click Flat under View Posts

    It is now just like Haloscan.
    reply
  • Robert >

    1 year ago

    Well, no, not JUST like Haloscan, but better than the Start format under the OP.

    Steve, Steve, Steve: when you get the urge to just re-arrange the furniture (unless there's a real financial savings in doing so), PLEASE JUST SAY NO. If those 4 short words can have such a great impact on the War On Drugs, think of what they can do for us commenters.
    reply
  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    I don't agree. This is much nicer to look at, and more flexible. If you want it to be like Haloscan, choosing to sort by Oldest and Flat view makes the layout logically identical to that at Haloscan. So, nothing lost, but something gained. I imagine that viewing in threaded mode would be much nicer for someone catching up after joining late or a prolonged absence.
    reply
  • crobinator

    1 year ago

    I agree with Squiggle. Nothing lost, a lot to gain. I've always seen Steve's posts, links, etc. as a forward motion. I think his writing, insights and research deserve recognition in professional forums, thus someone who writes as forwardly as Steve should have their work properly displayed. The more "fashion forward" in web design one can be, the better. I say Bravo. (See that? I related it to the case - I used Italian... oh so clever). --Christen
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    breaking and entering
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Thanks. I need to read more about that. True, I was writing without knowing the details of his record.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    What I don't get is why RS & AK are covering for RHG (at least AK anyway).
    And Sparrow is right, RS could well be referring to AK helping RHG? Or maybe he's giving a reason why they left RHGs evidence all over the crime scene, and saying how RHG in the end was too helpful to MK?
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  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    The source of the "helping people" quote was an unverified diary that was "leaked" by persons unknown. I wouldn't base any theories on it.
    How could anyone possibly cover for Rudy? He was there alone with Meredith.
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Well, I meant RS was talking about himself helping AK actually. I don't think they're helping RHG at all.

    And I have to figure out better how this format works.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    ah ok thanks pinecone. soz for the misunderstanding sparrow. this flashy website is weird!
    reply
  • sparrow

    1 year ago

    Yes. I think I will sit out and watch for awhile like Xin. I need to figure out what I did wrong.
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    ok...I will, thanks
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    yep....pretty funky,i must add..............oh well
    reply
  • nursebeeme

    1 year ago

    I LOVE THE WAY YOU HAVE REARRANGED THE FURNITURE HERE STEVE~OOOOOOO!!!! LOOKING GOOD, BROTHER!
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Pinkdrummergirl, and anyone who is thinking of posting here: we're no longer using this page. The discussion has moved to:
    http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblo...
    Thanks, see you there.
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    No big deal, I've just reviewed the video and AK did have a wardrobe at the base of her bed (different orientation than what I put on the floorplan). Her guitar is resting between the wardrobe doors and the foot of the bed.
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    AnnA, I'll fume about it in my car on my way home. Will check in later to the blog. Cheers
    reply
  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    I am completely stunned at the notion that, because they have allowed the shoeprint evidence to degrade(!?) that it may affect the case of RS. Certainly they know the evidence was there, and have done a fair amount of testing at this point.

    I can't help but wonder if the Solecito money have helped to degrade this key piece of evidence. I know that may seem far-fetched, but so does the notion that by allowing the shoeprint to degrade, the case against RS ( or whoever the print came from) is weakened....
    reply
  • livnnlrnin

    1 year ago

    Hi All...I'm new here and very confused? I'll keep looking around and try to figure this all out?? I've been reading Steve's blogs now for quite some time. I'd like to start discussing some of this with all of you if I'm smart enough. lol
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Butter knife: that's how rumours are started. New knife "D" is just a normal kitchen knife. I referred to cutting butter to emphasise that it's not threatening. However it could be. (I'm starting to sound like Amanda: Maybe. Or maybe not.)
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    the difference between a good fish knife like my gran would have used (ignore the handle quirks of these) http://www.aurumandsun.com/images/StainlessStee...
    and butter knives: http://cookies.cookiesfromitaly.com/silverfromi...
    AK did mention a meal of fish at rafes house, his hand had blood on it?
    she knows more than she should then, if it is a fish knife, she was there & was involved!

    to me though it looks like neither. it's massive. and if it was like a big master fish knife why is i not all 'silver' the handle is black. To me it looks like a bread knife or something. Unless it's a cheapo specialist fish-cookers knife. like what people who like to cook all different kinds of fish may have?
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Loz, you asked for the old internal houseplan. It's here.
    http://www.mediafire.com/?4fxx2y2g5h9
    Keep in mind that Amanda seems to have no wardrobe. The bathrooms aren't necessarily furnished correctly. Kitchen needs to be pushed back a meter.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    thankyou :)
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Hmm, the photograph and the video do not seem to line up right for me. I have to take another look at the video. Certainly your drawing, Kermit, looks correct by the photograph. Going to the video again.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    I was dead wrong on MK's bedroom, Kermit. The wardrobe is on the same wall as the head end of the bed. Meaning that the wardrobe is just above and to MKs, left (upper torso, head) and her feet facing the door and wall where the desk sets.

    When I first viewed the video several times I thought it was a pan of room right to left. Instead I now realize it is a edit cut after filming the wall above the head of the bed at the blood on the wall then a pan to the ceiling wood truss support the a start to pan the wall and CUT. Then next scene is panning the window, radiator below the window (in center, not to the left of that wall) and then to wardrobe. Except for the window location being in the center, your drawing is exactly correct. Still wonder if there was a blood trail from in front of the wardrobe to byt the bed. But in this case she was only moved two feet. At this point I can see a struggling self move as well as the possibility she was moved there by some one else.
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    The bathroom issue is confusing. I recall that both AK's and the victim's blood were found on the bidet. As regards RHG, in my initial comment accompanying the floorplan I said that probably Rudy's depositing of evidence took place in the little bathroom beside the victim's room. Later on one of the Italian TV programmes I saw, it said his DNA was in the big bathroom (on the other side of the house). Did he go that far to be more discrete? In any case, in another programme, it said that both bathrooms have provided evidence, but that may only refer to the cleanup effort.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    The RHG go potty doesn't make sense.
    But seems to me RS reported the toilet bowl as clean because he may have been referring to the bloodied bathroom nearest MKs room, while AK may have been talking about the big bathroom. But RHG wouldn't he know which one he pottied in? It means his story doesn't add up.
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    AnnA!!!! Look at ChrisChris' comment just below!! Evidence is evaporating!!
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Hey everyone! An inspection has been going on in Via della Pergola today (maybe it's still on).

    A knife has been found in the bushes, but it's a dull, round kitchen knife which probably has nothing to do with the crime (item "D" in the video below). Also, outside, additional blood stained hankerchiefs / tissues have been found (item "C"). Also, there is video of the inside of the house.

    I have to update the first houseplan. The photo of Amanda's room in the first PPT is Amanda's room, but clearly empty (it was strange for me that there are no books, etc.).

    In the video, you can clearly see her things, her guitar, etc.

    http://news.centrodiascolto.it/video/id=221605/...

    Strange she seems to have no wardrobe / closet. Also detail of the small bathroom. There IS a bidet.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    but kermit, in your ppt floor plan of the crime scene (2 ppts ago) you showed where the wardrobe was. and actually, I think it was beside the door but it wasn't clear. In fact MKs body was by the bed/wardrobe in its final position. but not in the position AK described?
    look at the vid agan, the wardrobe has white/painted white doors, near the radiator. to me, don't know though it looks to be in the diagonally opposite corner to the bed. I will check your ppt to see how it compares.oh crud I deleted it. please have you got it again? sorry kermit :(

    it doesn't look much like a butter knife to me.

    thanks for the video it's great.
    Unlike the CCTV, it's defo not a reconstruction of what the forensic officers found?
    I don't wanna get into another ski-mask/car bumper fiasco!
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    One thing I note is that it sure doesn't look like AK's bedroom is cleaned up. I mean how can you bleach every where when there are books and papers all over the desk and clothes all over the bed and floor. This story about a bleach clean up of AK's room is BS. There might not have been any prints there but it wasn't cleaned up.. No prints = she hardly spent any time there in the past two weeks.

    Second: Loz, keen eye. The wardrobe is in the opposite corner from the bed corner. The bed is adjacent (in the corner) to two walls, the long side of the bed to the wall with the radiator below the window. Adjacent to the wall space to the left of the radiator and window is one side of wardrobe which back is to the opposite wall from the head of the bed.

    Thus when found on the floor covered by the duvet, her head would had been towards towards the night stand adjacent to the head of the bed (not shown) and her feet would have been towards the radiator/window direction with the wardrobe just to the left of her feet. Her right side would have been parallel to the open side of the bed. An easy position if she was on her knees facing the radiator to drag her backwards after a knife blow and drop her upper torso and head to the floor after only two to three feet of dragging.

    I'm thinking forensic LE may have observed blood flow on the floor from in front of the wardrobe to the spot where her head & neck was dropped to the floor. Or she might herself tried to crawl back, I wouldn't speculate. But this makes sense if in fact she was killed in front of the wardrobe and then moved.

    The question is, what is the blood pattern evidence. Again we don't know and police haven't told. Why. They don't want her lawyers to know so they can advise her interview answers to questions about her talking about MK being found next to the wardrobe.
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Here's a better link (bigger size video, better resolution). This link is the whole lunchtime newsbroadcast. If you want to avoid the news items about meningitis, and other things, jump to the 6:00 minute mark (exactly) - or 13.04.00 on the timer/clock imbedded in the video - which is where the Perugia report starts.

    http://video.centrodiascolto.it/public/notizie/...
    reply
  • pinkdrummergirl

    1 year ago

    unfortunately these wont play for me, i dont have the plug-in, maybe cos i've got a mac...
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Okay, whoever out there has felt the local ILE didn't do a good investigation, I'm ready to pay my dues and join you. THERE's SNOW ON THE GROUND! The crime occurred a month and a half ago and now they're finding more blood stained hankies???!!!! It's frustrating, indeed.

    Now, the little conspiracy theorist on my shoulder jumps out and asks, "why did RS's lawyers suggest a couple of weeks ago to go back to the underbrush under the cottage, to find "the real murder weapon"."

    If knife "D" was there all along (even if it turns out to have nothing to do with the crime), some inspector should be fired.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    I disagree. on CSI they frequently do 2nd sweeps. fresh eyes. and also, in light of new information.
    so, I disagree.

    Yeah sure, the bushes should have been checked. bet it turns out RSs dad chuckd them there the other day & they turn out to be nowt. - ONLY JOKING :D
    reply
  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Kermit, I wondered the same thing about RS' lawyers--they seemed so specific about looking at the underbrush around the house. At the time it seemed crazy, because I was sure that the grounds had been scoured for evidence immediately after the crime. Ha!

    You have to wonder if this could aid the defense. They can say that much of the evidence collecting was bungled and cannot be considered reliable...
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    You have to wonder if this could aid the defense. They can say that much of the evidence collecting was bungled and cannot be considered reliable...

    unfortunately maybe. BUT if the forensics they took / they did take at the time were sound?

    Also, I had been following the mccann case and that brought up some interesting questions regarding the mccanns possibly disregarding forensics that are acceptible in the fresh Leslie Molseed & S.Lawrence case. well that's to do with dna i guess.

    But all I am saying, is that yeah it's good to get to a crime scene fast. but what about forensics years after? I don't know :/
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    besides, at this time of year, the leaves have rotted down more, revealing more.

    but still, should have checked.

    but like I said, csi do 2nd sweeps.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    and one way, obviously the way it was misreported MK was found in her bed.
    well, the police would have said MK was found under a duvet (which she was) and those 'lazy' jornos jumped to the conclusion that she was found under her duvet on her bed.

    so, her lawyers can't really use that.
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    I dunno....I was saving up my points for Xmas gifts and I like my avatar and I like using my profile to track independent comments and the chron setting Newest/Flat was working fine...but I understand some people are using Mac and those funny browsers they have and RobertM runs Windows 3.0...so the Halo thingy would be quicker for them but remember what happens that page gets full...member...refresh with 2000 posts...done that a couple of times...jes saying.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    *laughs* seattleite: Please vote your heart so you don't wear out your head and all your fine thinking posted here.
    reply
  • pinkdrummergirl

    1 year ago

    i've got a mac and disqus works fine. I like disqus...
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...
    It seems that traces of blood were found on the broken window and a handkerchief near a railing that surrounds the road above
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Loz: " E 'in fact been found in his room with the door locked. Era sul letto, coperta da un piumone. It was on the bed, covered by a piumone. Con la maglietta alzata e il seno scoperto, gli altri indumenti indosso. With the lifting shirt and discovered the breast, the other wearing clothes. "

    Why do you think this article states MK was found on the bed, covered by a duvet when in fact we know from photographs of the crime scene that she was on the floor covered with a duvet? All I can think of is terrible journalism, thus I find myself not believing anything in such an article. What do you think?
    reply
  • Pinecone

    1 year ago

    I agree with your disgust over the shoddy journalism. Even more offensive, to me, is the fact that judges and police have made false and accusatory statements. One could suspect they'd been misquoted, except that I've read nothing about officials objecting to any media mistakes.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Please do not misunderstand my posts. I am not challenging your ideas, thoughts, quotes or sharing of info in your posts. I just for some reason (today's reported AK hearing I guess) have a bee in my bonnet about this Italian and English journalists and their editors and poor reporting and really solicit your and others' here opinions of these articles.
    reply
  • Viv

    1 year ago

    I'm not sure I can condemn that article utterly for poor reporting, cw. It dates from the 2nd November when information was slight, and the journalist seems to be saying 'it is reported' in acknowledgement of the rumours flying about in the immediate aftermath of the shocking murder (someone please put me right if I'm mistaken). Some rumours may even have stemmed from whatever Knox was gossiping about down at the copshop. Journalists can only use what they're given, hence the 'news' is just that: the latest, frequently superseded, intelligence. (I know I'm stating the bleedin' obvious, but I'm up too late to do any better). Some correspondents are doing a pretty good job of discarding the random stuff and trying to stick to the facts, as known, as best they can.

    Translation errors (eg 'tampone'), piecemeal info from the police, defence and prosecution, not to mention remarkable literary flights on the part of the suspects, ain't helping. Any journalist will tell you that acres of newsprint about a case before a trial are not the best fields from which to glean the truth ;-) Which is a bit of a bugger for everyone here trying valiantly to make sense of all this...
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    And BTW, in the USA the reporting is really not any better as to accuracy and real journalistic digging, but it very much less on the "drama" quotient. (except perhaps the London Times which seems to stick to facts).
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Hey!! I just noticed a change in the software today, that we had requested when daniel was here yesterday. We had pointed out to him that in the threaded version that replies were being presented with the latest (newest) reply first after the parent, instead of the most recent reply being posted last, i.e., the oldest reply would occur first in the time sequence replies were made.

    The threaded view is now posting replies oldest first.. That's great. Hey, disqus is responding. Or maybe Steve is, not knowing how many control options Steve has as owner.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    For those of you who have been concerned about the refresh rates, load rates, and posting rates of the blog and as to whether it could be your computer or the software don't. Unless you are really using an old machine with Pentium2 processor. I am running a 5.2 ghz quad processor in a custom built machine (I do lots of photoshop and video editing) with a 8mb internet pipe and it loads slow for me also. about 5 seconds for posts but at least 10 or more seconds for refreshes. That means the servers are quite slow and under heavy loads. Usually that also means that as the blog files grow with more and more posts that it will continued to get slower and slower. So the software could use some module sectioning, described as chapters with links back to old chapters available by opening a second tab, etc. rather than reloading the entire blog from your cache and the internet every post or refresh.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    This is my own reply to parent link http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    The dual browser mode doesn't work because the disqus software does not word wrap the browser window to fit its adjusted size.

    But the dual mode works good enough to have just seen Steve's post. And I was just beginning to really appreciate this software, enough that I really hoped disqcus would continue to improve it and make it more user friendly and even add more feature.
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    KERMIT: AWESOME
    i like your commentary--that's what triggers thinking, revising, and fitting the pieces together.

    on your comment about the noise of the perpetrators...i totally agree, and recall an early report (will find in my pile of 100 docs printed out for Dr. ForPsy) was that it was the sounds of *loud arguing* that came from the House of Horrors at 2 a.m. or so.

    I feel like I am learning my way around Perugia a little bit.
    Thanks so much for the mini-trip to Italy. Goes onto the blog, si?
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    Xin said: KERMIT: AWESOME (ref. NEW PowerPoint)

    Sure Xin, I've no problem with any use of yours of the new PowerPoint. Keep in mind that I liberally used images from different sources, like any good user of Internet (a German tourist did the photo at the bottom of Raffaele's street, the University image is from a Japanese site, lots of composite images from Italian TV, etc.etc.), so it's not really me who you should ask.

    Puzzler?? Are you out there? I hope you don't mind, I used your Fireflies quote from the old blog to open up the new PPT. It's great. We actually have a lot of information, some of it since near the beginning of this crime, and some of that quite important. Once in a while I reflect back in time and say "hey, what about those mobile phones" or "remember that image which shows how the house is almost buried (excuse the expression) into the hillside. Those are "fireflies". I'll take off your quote if you have any issues.

    I like the new PPT because it gives you a spacial feel for the geographical relationship between these three characters. Actually, Frank at Perugia-Shock gave me the idea, as he mentioned that Raffaele and Rudy lived just meters apart, so I started to research it. Middie did a good summary map on the first blog, but it was so schematic that you didn't get a feel for what is a key feature of Perugia for me: the hillsides, slopes, stairways, ramps. That feature works its way into the events of Nov.1, and the immediate followup, as you see in the Powerpoint.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Just superb. And the appropriate photo detail. Now if you only had access to the papparazzi pics like through the windows, etc. Xin's time line with pics.

    And puzzler's line, so apt. I missed that 1st time through.
    reply
  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Be liberal, but not with the facts
    The opponents of 42-day detention should take account of stories from Italy and Spain

    "Yesterday, the day on which the former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer of Thoroton effectively killed the Government's 42-day detention plan, was also the 43rd day that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito spent in custody in Italy in connection with the Meredith Kercher case.

    I mention Knox and Sollecito, neither of whom have been charged, because their situation casts some light on the way the debate on detention has been conducted in Britain. Readers may remember that Liberty recently released a report “carried out by lawyers and academics in 15 countries” claiming that Britain had, in effect, the most draconian detention laws in the Western world."

    Interesting article in the Times

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/column...
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    hey, it's not possible is it, no cos he said he touched the bra, that AK put his blood on it? I think though he cut himself with a knife, or on glass (but he still used a knife). imh

    i just keep wondering, why on earth did he leave the toilet unflushed. then again, he left bits of himself all over that scene...
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    On the perugia blogspot a point was made he could have left it in there after the crime (during clean-up). I guess he could have done it before the crime too.

    Maybe he was upstairs when MK came in. he quickly left the toilet to assault her.

    Or didn't flush to keep 'silent' so she wouldn't know he had been let into the house by RS/AK.

    then, they/he ambushed her.

    and forgot about the toilet...
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    I never believed his story of hearing a scream and jumping up, pants down and all. I have always thought he just forgot to flush, because amongst other demonstrations of his rather less than astute thinking processes, he was just socially absent minded about using others' private toilets and instead treated them like his own or public toilets, that is, frequently just didn't bother to flush. He even , it was reported, used toilets to take naps. *l*
    reply
  • DLW

    1 year ago

    Coyotewaits
    I think another explanation why Rudy didn’t flush, was he tried and the toilet jammed. Some of those water saving commodes can’t handle much. He didn’t want to take the time to find a plunger.
    I think he was also very edgy, and anything could cause him to panic & run for cover.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    I think it was to keep silent, so he could ambush MK, but I really don't know why she wouldn't assume it was AK/RS.

    Unless they were with her in her room, or she knew they were in the kitchen & didn't have time to potty, and why not use the bathroom closer to the kitchen?

    More likely he waited in that toilet, heard MK, and abandoned potty in a hurry to attack her.

    I also think, wonderful as they are, peoples timelines regarding the mushroom snack are wrong.

    i think she snacked JUST before being attacked. Maybe not a few minutes, maybe 5/10. But not JUST AFTER 9pm/9.15.
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    oh man i think she should cut her losses & tell the truth
    reply
  • Kermit

    1 year ago

    PS. The PowerPoint is best seen in Presentation Mode.
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    You are stunning belle. Love the pic.
    Yes. All translations are very much appreciated.
    I keep a list of useful phrases to use on my next trip (spring i hope)
    here's one middie taught us:
    "belle,
    canna=joint
    spinello=little joint
    ciao
    Middie"

    world peace through slang


    (you saw my reply to your post, yeah?)
    there should be points-a-plenty piling up on this one
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Seconding those who believe AK and RS are involved 1) someway, 2) guilty as charged, 3)anyway; is the fact that we, those of us here, just can no longer trust to use what we read in the press as evidence. Loz, you ask the question "what about AK's bleach clean room?" How do we know the room was cleaned with beach and there were no fingerprints? Did the policia scientifica on site tell you? No some media reporter heard it second or third hand through some leak and his/her editor decided it worthy to print. Has the subject ever come up again in the press. No. The only place the subject comes up is here. This is true for so much of the evidence. Reported today, never mentioned again, except here. Gawd I wish some of are really great sleuths here were investigating and reporting from Perugia, maybe even sleeping with the chief prosecutor for facts.

    Maybe evidence is true, maybe it is not, maybe it is false and leaked. What we really all know now is that we shouldn't be able to trust anything we have been reading in the press, except perhaps the names of the principle prosecutor and the investigating judge and that they have the power to detain the suspects. For me at least, all bets are off as to who is guilty of what? But speculate away. Who be it me to try to counter any evidence reported in the press over the last 47 days and used in the press or here to build a case scenario. It would seem at this point anyone could pick and choose their evidence and build their case. Everyone's POV is valid and logical. I know I suffer from impatience and a need to know. So the results of todays hearing, as we heard it reported just frustrated me all the more, I guess. You are just going to have wait coyotewait[s].
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    the bleach was a quote from the ILE / judges report? it may be false.
    and ok, it's true, we can't build a scenario from such poor morsels

    But I still stand by ALL my thoughts on their (RS&AKS) leaked statements & diaries etc etc.

    and her (not literally) f-ing with the prison chaplin & nun.
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    who knows...?
    reply
  • xin

    1 year ago

    Today's (first version, may be updated later on) Telegraph UK is up.
    http://tinyurl.com/2xonj9

    This interesting bit appears at the end of the article:
    (excerpt follows)
    The police in Perugia are carrying out a further search at the scene of the crime and intend to take more photographs of a bloody shoe print found at the scene. So far, the police have been unable to match the shoe with any of the current suspects.
    reply
  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    xin wrote: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    Thanks xin. I keep saying the LE doesn't have the hard evidence to put AK and RS at the cs. They are fishing based on their own theories of what happen, probably only slightly better than our own here since they know which of the evidence they leaked is really false. OK, not the shoe that fit (RS), doesn't fit, "ya got to acquit". The cctv pics, where are they? The hair in MK's hand, where is it? The witnesses, just maybe people who want to be involved, not real witnesses, still coming out of the wood work. The knife with MK DNA on the tip? Dr. Henry Lee and O.J. defense team to the attack of credibility of DNA sample? This will go on for ever?

    But now hearing that the shoe that fit no longer fits. One is left with only three possible conclusion. LE is incompetent, LE and judges are corrupt and totally political to crass public needs, or LE has no solid evidence and keep fishing for confessions so they can support their own speculations. It happens frequently enough in crimes here in the USA as so many here continually point out.
    reply
  • fran

    1 year ago

    Sorry you are hurrying up to conclusion too easily
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo. The Nike is NOT Rafe's!!! And as the article references "a" bloody shoe print, it has to be the one AndyT imaged for us two blog ago. The One & Only . "Case Not-closed". Gotta split.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    OK. I've finished ny nested translation of Amanda Cries above. I don't have the correct absolute times as I'm not home. Please note my confusions over some sentence objects which definitely impacts meaning. Really, can some of the Italian speakers have a go at all that?

    XIN despite thinking her guilty, you can see that Amanda really needs the Alioto woman as lawyer/mother hen. Put a phone call in. Especially as I don't see hie nor hair of Amanda's Dad in any paper references.

    You know, this could be the FIRST Trans-Atlantic Court-TV production!!!
    reply
  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    XIN:
    So far, the police have been unable to match the shoe with any of the current suspects.

    Speechless.
    reply
  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    And the so-called "match" was indeed one of the points cited--if not the MAIN point--in the detectives' report to the PM on the reasons to hold Rafe. Are the Walls Coming Tumbling Down????
    reply
  • Loz

    1 year ago

    great article: http://womensissues.about.com/b/2007/12/17/host...

    never watched the film myself
    reply
  • meman

    1 year ago

    Any body that uses the word "point" in there posts..........from now on..........I will be deducting one....pointless get it....hahah
    reply
  • belle

    1 year ago

    hi all, I still have to catch up on all that's been said regarding the case. I'm also trying to get used to this splashy new site. I guess haloscan didn't have the sweeeet pic option so that's one point, wait are points good or bad here? confused... we'll see.
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO belle, don't ask re points. Just set your preferences (options) as Flat Threaded and start at the top and work your way down. You'll find out MORE than you can understand re points. As mean is relentlessly saying "points here are...pointless".
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  • Rhonda

    1 year ago

    aawwww belle ..so glad to see you here. Your " Road to the Sea" on the old haloscan was beautiful.
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Main Post: General Comment

    For "dialogue" & "discussion", I would prefer a total flat format system with BOTH absolute time-stamps and an automatic sequential numbering system. I wouldn't then have to use html link stuff that I can do but which seems a bother to me in the typing process. I could just say "LOZ says in post #nnn that..."

    Also, all posts would appear Left Justified, a fine thing in itself, without any of this nesting which could, in the course of replying to a particularly interesting main post, get so replied to that it practically gets Right Justified, scrunched over to the Right as one word per line thing scrolling down the page. I point THAT out because, in effect, ALL of our posts/replies are REPLIES to the Main Theme: Meredith Kercher's death in Perugia by Person(s) Perhpas Unknown.

    However, Flat/Threaded is certainly working for me today, and I have made several Replies to what I term "posts above" as my way of catching up with previous comments. I have endeavored to keep them post-specific, such as to translation issues around today's AK judicial interrogation in La Repubblica/The Republic (fem.) Nonetheless, such a post raises general or main post issues.

    I guess I'm recommending checking back several hours to see what might be NEWLY reply/nested, scrolling downard (or upward--your preference). That's my angle. One could of course do a resort for all New posts. Whatever.

    OK. Having said the above, this is the LAST time I'm going to say anything about this format. Unless, of course, the founders/developers starting making changes to functionality in the eBay Way, which is, just because we can and we want to, so there.

    So, any more links to write-ups on Today's Dramatic Court News?
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    Oh heck. here's all of the things she didn't answer:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=...
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  • crobinator

    1 year ago

    Also to note (if it hasn't been noted already): 1) If you link to comments from the disqus page (to the truecrimeweblog.disqus.com), it will slow down your system unless you have a killer system - it loads every comment to one page. 2) the points system works on a give/take. The number of points you have is in relation to a) how much you comment; b) how often you give points to others; c) how often others give points to you. If you always comment but never give out points, you're more likely to have a negative "surplus" - if you will - of points. Play around and watch your points change. It seems random and broken at first, but if you calculate how much you post, then give a point, then ask someone to give you one as well, you can figure it out.

    Pretty neat, actually. It sponsors camaraderie!
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    How idiotic, must have something to do with the youth of the programmers who are all into social networking web 2.0 -500 points to disqus.com
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  • crobinator

    1 year ago

    It does have a social networking ring, doesn't it? And not to be snarky, but interesting how some commenters can really get bent out of shape when their points are low. The presence of points, despite Steve's proper guidance to just ignore them, makes a person care, despite better judgment. Fascinating social commentary on its own. :)
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  • crobinator

    1 year ago

    my comment was not an implication of you - you have many many points. my implication is for others in previous posts who threatened to not come back to steve's blog because of the low points they received. i did not name names o
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  • crobinator

    1 year ago

    n purpose but can assure you it was not in reference to you. apologies for not better phrasing - or rather, not saying it at all.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    crobinator: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    I was on the blog almost all day yesterday, even when daniel ha came on and accepted criticism and comments on the disqus system. You are correct that there were many, many comments about the point system, especially when daniel said it was not broken and that it was entire dependent upon the poster (he did not explain it in detail has you did) but most of those comments were really in jest, as you see some now still are. My point here though is no one, and I emphasize "no one" said they were leaving because they had negative points or felt uncomfortable with the point system. Those who said they were fed up with it left mostly because they could "not" find previous posts they wished to link too and spent endless minutes trying to find parent links. They didn't understand squiggles explanation of the drop down menu from icon, and that there was no notice that new replies were being posted to old parent posts that they would never see in the threaded view. It really is frustrating compared to the fixed time stamp and linearity of the Haloscan system. Yes disqus system has more features, more personalized control, but it lacks simplicity in cross post references that is acute to blog subjects of this intensity.

    P.S. And those who left, I know they will be back. They were some of the post active and positive contributors here.
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  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    I've expected all the kvetching, cw, but I've deleted your last two posts attacking crobinator. I know who that person is, they've been reading my blogs for years, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the company that created this commenting system. It's fine to be pissed off, but your attack on another commentator in this case was unwarranted and unfair.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    you should mark their points down for that!\ ;)
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  • Rhonda

    1 year ago

    PLEASE....just ignore the points....as xin says... they are rather sophmoric. We were doing just fine without them.
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  • stevehuff

    1 year ago

    Yes, do. I've set it so that point standing should have no effect on your posts' visibility. I experimented with them myself at first, and found them uninteresting. For the record, I've never voted anyone down, only up.
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    and her implied attack on me was unfair. Steve we are here for the topic of Meredith Kercher and her murder. We been here for well over a month and through two pages of haloscan. For what ever reason, and it certainly was your choice you elected to move the blog comments too this new software. It was quite disconcerting to almost all of us, but we have tried to adapt, but you can tell from the criticism that it has almost become the focus of the blog rather than MK.

    So I support that the criticism herewithin since this format started is honest, legitimate and warranted. My case.
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  • soozieuk

    1 year ago

    So this is the new blog. Anyone else having probs scrolling and typing? There's a delay before the words appear!
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  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    Hi Soozie,

    Welcome to this side. My first advice is to make sure you're at this version: http://truecrimeweblog.disqus.com/open_thread_t...

    Then, click on my icon (at top left of this post), and read the various things nutted out yesterday on using this thing effectively - or, once at the non-paginated version, select your view and sort preferences and scroll though yesterday's posts.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    you forgot to delete the bit between / & #. Like you said to me the other day, you've totally screwed up others 'preferences'.
    I will scold you, you selfish person!
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  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    Erm, no. The post you're replying to contains no such link.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    first of all you wanted us not to use reply, but to link posts, but to delete the bit between / & #. tested it, it didn't work. when I left it in, it did. you then said I had screwed it up for everyone else, when I was just trying to do it your way.
    Now you said we should use the reply function.
    I am really confused, what should we do?
    Then I posted a reply to xin about cctv, and you went off on one. I apologised, but nothing...
    what am i supposed to do?
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  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    It's now clear what is going on with the "points". Someone is going through and marking down anything that is critical of the Disqus software, or even making suggestions on how to work around it's current weaknesses and/or unfamiliarity.

    Whoever this is: grow up.
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  • Squiggle

    1 year ago

    ... though I guess there's another possibility. Whenever some folks are corrected, they throw a hissy fit and mark down every post made by the person who pointed out their errors. The more posts you've made, the further they can "mark you down". Since many of mine have been on the topic of the software, I may have drawn the wrong conclusion. I have lost 17 points in the last hour, whilst there has been almost no one posting here. How could that have happened, I wonder?

    What a petty, bitchy place these "points" have made it here.

    I don't think I'll be back.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    some folks are just really rude. I don't think you should leave over it, you just shouldn't be so rude & short with people.
    ps: i tried to deduct a point from your rude replies, there were no arrows by these. so instead I went to some of your other posts. I think it's fair, as i had just went around the last two days just 'upping' people's points. Why not? It's not like you're in negatives or can't gain them back.
    I admit, I may have gone 'overboard'
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    And just when I "took to heart" the admonition not to pay attention to the points because they were --> pointless!!

    Stick around. Remember you are always "ahead of the game" given your Oz location.
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  • xin

    1 year ago

    meman: you look HOT
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  • meman

    1 year ago

    xin...................Thanks....you like that picture huh?......lol...maybe I should put it back then...
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Put it bakc, I didn't get a chanc to oogle, er, Google, yeah that's it!
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Everything that we know about Mk and how she felt about AK, her drug use and her strange men friends make it unbelievable that MK would make a date to meet him at her home. She had told her boyfriend from downstairs, when he hesitated to leave for holiday, to go. That she would be waiting there for him when he returned.

    If RG was meeting someone at the house, it was AK, not M.
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  • meman

    1 year ago

    Fran..............................Early on in the case, the LE released part of a cell phone conversation between Amanda and RS...................Where she supposly said "I can't take this (It) anymore......Was the whole conversation released do you know?.........I find it very hard to believe they just released only that portion of the taped conversation....What would be the purpose of it?...................Without seeing or listening to the whole thing......I am with the idea it was sometype of police tactic..............
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  • xin

    1 year ago

    amanda is the dead center connection linking all aspects of this crime. and she is an idiot.

    ((this board has now eaten one of my posts, and i can't remember the content, because I am so distracted by the arcane workings of this place...NOT HASH. But the medium is the massage, and the topic here is now ABOUT DIS.cuss which i find very irritating and i know i am a force in it, and i am sorry. I think I'll go read jung until there is evidence that belle, soozie, and others have wandered the desert to wherever the hell we now find ourselves PLUS DANIEL HA if you are here--we need a little lightbulb when there are new posts. see haloscan ;) ))
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  • RobertM

    1 year ago

    Jump right in with Memories, Dreams and Reflections-still out in pb and even still on library shelves. Also, from the early 1990s, there's a book on the Speilrein woman & Freud/Jung as she got analyzsed by both! (dead center present at the creation of both analytical and depth psychology). I'm now reading Hollis, Why Good People Do Bad Things, which is really a primer on where Jung's psychology is now, rather than a more scientific study along Robert Hare's lines; i.e. some of my patients did this as compared to 37% of all male prison inmates can be classified as sub-acute personality disorders... Still, for what I need to know now, a good, clear book.

    In Jung/Hollis' terms, one dynamic that was going on was that AMANDA was letting her animus Shadow issues flourish, whereas RAFE was letting his anima Shadow issues flourish in direct response to Amanda. The visual Jung always favored to express this was the yin-yang circle. But JUNG's POINT would be that as both were UNBALANCED people (AK=High Animus/Low Anina & Rafe vice versa), TOGETHER THEY COMPLETED EACH OTHER, which is why it felt so good for both to be together so much on the days after the murder & why Jung would not be surprised by the lingerie shopping on Saturday.

    The other thing I like about Jung/Hollis is that the position is that your Shadow issues will come & get you if you are not paying attention, but despite their unconscious nature, they are part of you and you are responsible for otucomes those issues cause. No Free Pass. (<--- which is the short-short-hand answer to the book's title question.)
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Fran,

    Was there a scream at 2 am, or was it arguing at 2 am that was heard?
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  • fran

    1 year ago

    A girl actually was passing by at 2 am and heard screams and talk about that to a professor the next day
    So, noises were heard, in and around the house, at 1 am
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  • fran

    1 year ago

    We must take into consideration the girl who left hurriedly Perugia the day after the murder and whom nobody wants to talk about (it seems that somebody knows more about this crime in Perugia...)..the same article which talks about the night witnesses recalls that thirty years ago a noir was filmed in Perugia which dealt with a murderer killing University for Foreigners students
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Fran,

    are you aware of any investigation about who this woman is and where she has gone?
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  • fran

    1 year ago

    Well, no more leaking about her -- she was a student and she talked with a professor before leaving -- they know who she is -- I hope they have already found her
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  • meman

    1 year ago

    RobertM..............just ignore the points......their pointless
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Sorry Amanda is an idiot but is she a murderer?

    I don't know whether or not she is a/the murderer, but I'm guessing that if she'd stayed at home in Seattle, MK would be alive. At the very least I think her lifestyle started the chain of events that led to MK's murder....To paraphrase RS , " If MK was murdered, it is above all the fault of AK..".
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  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    I understand your sentiment and if the court decides she has culpability and spends time in prison no one here except maybe her family and friends will shed a tear.
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  • meman

    1 year ago

    whooo thanks seattlelite........................lol
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  • xin

    1 year ago

    Ah. Perugia.
    Let's visit the big fountain
    (hard to find webcams that work. early days of tech!)

    http://viaggi.globopix.net/webcam/webcam-perugi...

    and to plan our visit:
    http://www.perugiaonline.com/meteopgus.html
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    OMG it is going to be cold in RS's cell tonight.
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    do you know what's weird about AKs lawyers though? They are releasing chunks of her diary, in which she's no longer under duress, but still can't remember details...

    As an excuse for her not speaking at this latest hearing?

    It's all rather short-term though?
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  • xin

    1 year ago

    Better webcam visit to Perugia:
    http://tinyurl.com/2zn3q5

    click to cam, city stills
    site sponsored by city of Perugia, sister city to Seattle (rue the day)
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    geeessssh I was hoping for a live web cam of the prison.
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  • xin

    1 year ago

    still looking for prison webcam
    also it would be fun to find one at le chic
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    Hey to our eyes and ears in Perugia. Isn't that damian? Does anyone know if Le Chic has reopened since PL was released? I hope he has. Something needs to return to normal in that horrified town.
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  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Why rue the day Xin? You mean for Seattle? It looks like at this point that the murderer is an Italian unless you disbelieve all the reported DNA evidence.

    Perugia/Seattle connection is well known here and has led to very strong cultural and even business associations between the cities. In fact my favorite coffee (and widely bought and liked here) was created by a man from Perugia, who came to Seattle and founded Torrefazione coffee and cafes. He sold the business after it became very beloved and now resides in Perugia.

    People will not argue much about sports, finance or weather but get them started about the best coffee and the claws come out. I am drinking Torrefazione Sardegna now.

    He sold the company to "guess who" a few years ago but has opened a new venture Cafe Umbria in Portland to much fanfare.

    Sorry Amanda is an idiot but is she a murderer?
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    xin: check your email at gmail again. Thanks
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  • coyotewaits

    1 year ago

    xin: thanks for the weather cam in Perugia. I see it is 20 degrees F as before, except before it seemed to be rising by a degree everywhere else over that 20 hours. But the then I checked Loz temp in UK and it was going down, then back up. Weird. Anyway AK better wear her warmers tomorrow morning on her way to court. You may be right!!!! Even the temp in Chicago is going up a bit after our big storm.
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Pinecone and seattleite,

    what do you make of the call that AK placed to RG just after MK's body was discovered?
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  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Loz: CCTV

    Eager to see any and all "real" CCTV but I will not be surprised to not find Rudy leaving. I think he went down the hill and into the trees and past a direct line to his house and back up into populated area (dropping the phones he decided he didn't really want or need in the garden) and back towards his house coming NOT from the direction of the crime. Google map or Windows live thingy map will show you what I mean.

    I think there was a Kermit map on the second thread on Haloscan really good and accurate map from sources.
    http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?71a4...
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  • Loz

    1 year ago

    I just know that when I've been off my face, and I remember it, I can't say my name properly. Probably couldn't handle a key.

    exactly how out of their heads were they?
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  • seattleite

    1 year ago

    Annarbor wrote: Rudy has said that he barely knows Amanda.

    Read the first part of my post. I don't even think the call took place( yet.) I was speculating based on a question that was asked by Loz.
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  • annarbor

    1 year ago

    Actually if you look back, the question about the phonecal was posed by me.

    why so testy, seattleite?
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